4thWaveNow was founded in 2015 by Denise, the mother of a teenage girl who suddenly announced she was a trans man after a few weeks of total immersion in YouTube transition vlogs and other trans-oriented social media. Denise’s daughter Chiara has since desisted from identifying as transgender and in 2019 cofounded an organization for desisted/detransitioned women, the Pique Resilience Project.
4thWaveNow founder Denise and friends.
In early 2015, after much research and fruitless searching for an alternative online viewpoint, Denise began writing about her deepening skepticism of the ever-accelerating medical and media fascination with the phenomenon of “transgender children.”
4thWaveNow has now expanded to feature not only Denise’s writing, but that of other parents, formerly trans-identified people, and others with professional expertise and experience with young people questioning their gender identity.
Readers, please introduce yourselves and feel welcome here.
From the founder:
I created this site because mine is a viewpoint that is seldom publicly heard: that of a left-leaning parent who is critical of the dominant paradigm regarding transgender politics and treatment. My primary concern is children, teens, and people in their early 20s, particularly girls who are contemplating medical transition. While I may disagree with their views, I do understand that consenting adults have the right to do what they choose with their own bodies and minds.
Online, I have been accused of being “unsupportive,” even abusive, simply for daring to question whether lifelong medical treatment–injections and plastic surgeries–is the answer for every young person who has gender dysphoria. In my world, caring about, listening to, and lovingly parenting a child or young adult is not necessarily a synonym for unexamined “support” for everything the child says or wants. In fact, one of the main jobs in parenting a teen is, not coercion, but the offering of alternatives; discussing, and sometimes disagreeing.
It is my contention that the medical and psychological establishments are letting us all down in their rush to diagnose young people as “transgender,” then to give the message that medical treatment is the answer. Much of my writing now and in the future will focus on the adults who are encouraging so many young people to pursue extreme treatments. And I do consider hormones and surgery extreme treatment, if there is any possibility that something less drastic might be a solution.
At4thWaveNow, we are interested in hearing from parents, family members, concerned professionals, and allies from across the political spectrum. However, we are not in accord with conservative, religious-fundamentalist views about sexuality. We are strong supporters of gay, lesbian, and bisexual people.
Please read blog posts and articles carefully before asking questions or commenting, and check our our FAQs for answers to commonly asked questions.
http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/apr/23/a-letter-to-my-little-girl-who-identifies-as-a-boy?CMP=fb_gu
I can’t believe the Guardian let this one through. Finally, they are allowing another opinion to be written.
Presumably allowed only because it was by an anonymous, ordinary, thinking human being, rather than a staff journalist. That way the Guardian escapes responsibility for the non-groupthink views.
Sounds like this mom can’t come to terms with the fact that her little girl might be a “Boy”…
But Frank, girls aren’t boys, nor can they become boys, or vice versa. It is a simple fact. Why not just let the girl pursue her ‘masculine” interests without feeding her damaging falsehoods?
Dear 4thwavenow founder and other skeptical parents, I have lost a daughter to the FTM cult. Does it matter if she was 17 or 20? No. She is always your daughter. She cut all ties to all of her family and is “supported” in her destruction by her college. I visit this site and others occasionally but it is a bit like visiting an accident scene and I wonder what it accomplishes. It is pretty amazing to me (someone who suddenly had this dark universe descend upon us) how little average people know about it. As you all know, there are daily pro-trans news in all of the mainstream news sites. I have never seen a horror story like ours in the news, the missing and maimed children, the fallout for all of the family. I am determined to get our story into the mainstream news. It is the only way to start a conversation and change minds and policies. But, I am stymied (as you are) by how to tell a story that has my daughter in a starring role. We are not allowed to tell our truths when they involve other people. I was willing to go public and take the hate that would come my way but then I realized that I cannot be me because it reveals her, who is now a they, a trans or FTM. She is my beloved eldest daughter and she was beautiful and kind and brilliant and talented in so many ways, and she was feminine and all-girl.
She was also diagnosed as bipolar at the same time she went down this path. It all started on the internet. I was capturing sites visited with the filter on our network and trying to take away her computer for what I thought was pornography and then realized later that it was a particular type of pornography- a trans, identity-sucking, pornography.
She is officially a suicide risk. Is that any wonder? Would she be less of a suicide risk if she had not gotten hooked in to this dark underworld? You betcha.
Sorry, I got too wordy here.
If I can find a trusted journalist who is willing to share our collective stories and cloak our identities for the protection of our children with their fragile identities, would you be willing to share?
Check your email later today.
Hi, we too are parenting a child caught in the madness of the current transgender wave sweeping Australian shores. We are closely following a recommendation proposed by Tasmania’s Anti-Discrimination Commissioner to change the Birth, Deaths and Marriages Act.
“One of the recommendations in the Options Paper is to allow any person to ‘self-identify’ the sex marker on their birth certificate, regardless of whether or not they have undergone any cross-sex hormone treatment or sex-reassignment surgery, or even what is called ‘social transition’ – where a person changes their sex-pronouns and in some fashion presents themselves to the world as the opposite sex.”
It it complex and extremely worrying. It further reinforces and creates confusion for our teens struggling to cope with hormones, social, media and an increasingly hostile world. For more details: http://tasmaniantimes.com/index.php?/weblog/article/Women-men-who-identify-as-women-feminists-/
Thanks for the web-site it offers insight and reassurance that we are supporting our daughter, if not her current choices.
That is terrible. When a young person has lost sight of who she or he is, they absolutely should not be encouraged to further lose themselves with this self-definition.
Recent article about a family suing a charter school in Minnesota re: their five year old, re: trans ideology. For your interest….
Minnesota Parents Sue To Get Trans Classes In Kindergarten
Parents of a five-year-old trans-questioning child have filed a complaint against a charter school for refusing to teach harmful, anti-science beliefs about human biology.
D.C. McAllister
By D.C. McAllister
April 25, 2016
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Parents of a 5-year-old “transgender child” have filed a complaint against a St. Paul charter school, alleging it failed to protect him from bullying and refused to teach all the students their preferred transgender-awareness curriculum.
David and Hannah Edwards, whose child was born a boy but now thinks he’s a girl, has filed with the city’s Department of Human Rights, claiming their child “wasn’t able to take full advantage of Nova’s educational opportunities because of her gender identity and expression. This violated her rights.”
When the boy showed up at school wearing pink tennis shoes and wanting to wear a jumper like the girls in gym class, other children reportedly pointed and laughed at him. The parents contacted the school and wanted something done to protect their child from bullying, despite the fact that the school currently has an anti-bullying policy.
Nova Classical Academy’s executive director, Eric Williams, told 5 Eyewitness News the school has a mandatory policy, called the Bullying Prohibition Policy, which they are simply trying to follow. “He says that means providing a safe and welcoming environment for all students, regardless of their status.”
The Edwardses, however, wanted more—for the school to teach only their views of human sexuality and to be engaged in helping their five-year-old boy transition to a girl.
“My kid is just trying to live and be accepted and be safe,” said Hannah Edwards.
“We’re not yet sure of the person that our son is, he’s in kindergarten,” Dave Edwards said. “We don’t label him. He’s not anything. He’s our kid, but we know from what he has shown us this far, that we are going to need some protections in place to keep him safe while he’s in public school.”
The Edwardses said they were disappointed that their son’s needs couldn’t be met privately and that this had to become a “huge spectacle.”
Parents Versus Parents
The issue became public when the Edwards demanded the school present transgender materials and information to their child’s classmates. “Key components included a letter to be sent home to kindergarten families notifying them of the transition; use of the book ‘I Am Jazz‘ in each kindergarten classroom; and communications for any families who asked about opting out of the classroom education, to direct them to equivalent content and to outline behavior expectations,” the complaint states.
School officials changed their minds after backlash from parents who didn’t want transgenderism taught at such a young age.
While the school was initially willing to implement such materials, even considering an additional book, “My Princess Boy,” school officials changed their minds after backlash from parents who didn’t want transgenderism taught at such a young age. Some parents believed an opt-out would not be sufficient because the information would inevitably be spread to the other students who did not receive the instruction directly. As a result, the school chose to enforce its anti-bulling policy and not conduct gender re-education.
According to the complaint, school officials also refused to inform the child’s classmates of “her preferred name and pronouns, without first delaying for days and inviting or encouraging families to ‘opt out’ of this information.”
Several families who attended a meeting about the transgender issue thought the school was doing enough by enforcing its current bullying policy and that it didn’t need to do more.
“We’re learning that this is really a political agenda here and it isn’t just about the bullying of a child,” Paula Rothstein, the parent of two children at Nova, told KSTP.
“If you put that sort of weight on an issue and you say, ‘OK we’re going to talk about this, and some children are this, and he looks like a boy but he’s really a girl,’ well, you know I would have a problem with that.”
Trans Rapidly Moving into Pre-Puberty
The issue of transgender children has been the subject of much national debate as LGBT advocacy groups have been pushing for categorizing younger children as transgender. The Edwards aren’t the first to gain publicity because of their child’s gender confusion. Another controversial case is that of the Whittingtons, whose 7-year-old daughter insists she’s a boy, and the parents have accepted her “transgender” status, even being open to using puberty-blocking hormones on their daughter when the time comes. As for undergoing sex change surgery, the mother said “they will cross that bridge when they get to it.”
LGBT advocacy groups have been pushing for categorizing younger children as transgender.
To encourage transition at young ages, transgender websites have started selling products for children and teens to help them embrace their perceived gender identity. These include tiny dildos young girls can strap on to emulate having a real penis. The company Tranzwear offers custom-made “cyberskin packers,” “created to be worn comfortably” for “a more realistic look and feel.”
If you can stomach it, here’s a video by girl transitioning to become a boy who has undergone testosterone treatment and encourages other transgender people to wear “packing briefs” that are modified to support a fake penis.
The company has received so much criticism regarding these products that it has been forced to put a notice on their website that says, “We have recently experienced some serious and illegal hate based harassment from TERF/transphobic groups due to their incorrect premise that we are selling ‘sex devices for children.’ By no means has this ever been our intent behind making, and providing these transition based products for your kids.” Tranzwear, the statement says, is “a partner to assist you and your child on their very important journey.”
Let’s Reinforce Reality for a Second
Whether it’s transition products, hormone blocking, sex changes, or forcing schools to help a young child make the transition from one gender to another, experts have come out strongly against this kind of gender ideology being imposed on children.
The American College of Pediatricians issued a report urging “educators and legislators to reject all policies that condition children to accept as normal a life of chemical and surgical impersonation of the opposite sex. Facts – not ideology – determine reality.”
The report states that “human sexuality is an objective biological binary trait: ‘XY’ and ‘XX’ are genetic markers of health – not genetic markers of a disorder,” and “No one is born with a gender. Everyone is born with a biological sex. Gender (an awareness and sense of oneself as male or female) is a sociological and psychological concept; not an objective biological one.”
No one is born with an awareness of themselves as male or female; this awareness develops over time and, like all developmental processes, may be derailed by a child’s subjective perceptions, relationships, and adverse experiences from infancy forward. People who identify as ‘feeling like the opposite sex’ or ‘somewhere in between’ do not comprise a third sex. They remain biological men or biological women.
A person’s belief that he or she is something they are not is, at best, a sign of confused thinking. When an otherwise healthy biological boy believes he is a girl, or an otherwise healthy biological girl believes she is a boy, an objective psychological problem exists that lies in the mind not the body, and it should be treated as such. These children suffer from gender dysphoria. Gender dysphoria (GD), formerly listed as Gender Identity Disorder (GID), is a recognized mental disorder in the most recent edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of the American Psychiatric Association (DSM-V). The psychodynamic and social learning theories of GD/GID have never been disproved.
“Puberty is not a disease and puberty-blocking hormones can be dangerous,” the report states. “Reversible or not, puberty-blocking hormones induce a state of disease – the absence of puberty – and inhibit growth and fertility in a previously biologically healthy child.” In other words, to treat children in this way is “to do harm,” something neither parents nor doctors should ever do.
Children who use puberty blockers to impersonate the opposite sex will require cross-sex hormones in late adolescence. Cross-sex hormones (testosterone and estrogen) are associated with dangerous health risks including but not limited to high blood pressure, blood clots, stroke and cancer.
Rates of suicide are twenty times greater among adults who use cross-sex hormones and undergo sex reassignment surgery, even in Sweden which is among the most LGBQT – affirming countries.
According to the DSM-V, as many as ‘98% of gender confused boys and 88% of gender confused girls eventually accept their biological sex after naturally passing through puberty.’
Stop the Child Abuse Now
Those who are “helping” children become the sex they imagine themselves to be are engaging in child abuse. This is a point the American College of Pediatricians firmly makes: “Conditioning children into believing that a lifetime of chemical and surgical impersonation of the opposite sex is normal and healthful is child abuse.”
‘Conditioning children into believing that a lifetime of chemical and surgical impersonation of the opposite sex is normal and healthful is child abuse.’
“Endorsing gender discordance as normal via public education and legal policies will confuse children and parents, leading more children to present to ‘gender clinics’ where they will be given puberty-blocking drugs,” the report says. “This, in turn, virtually ensures that they will ‘choose’ a lifetime of carcinogenic and otherwise toxic cross-sex hormones, and likely consider unnecessary surgical mutilation of their healthy body parts as young adults.”
The depth of the confusion regarding this issue is revealed in the comment by Dave Edwards in reference to his son, who was born a healthy male. “We don’t label him. He’s not anything.” The fact is, he is “something.” The child is a male who is confused about his gender. To play along with this psychological confusion instead helping the child in a supportive and loving way to bring his thinking into alignment with reality is a form of child neglect, something no school should support.
Given the abusive nature of gender ideology, Nova Classical Academy is doing the right thing by refusing to play along with the gender conditioning of a 5-year-old child. By refusing to give in to the trans agenda, the school is actually protecting children and doing what is right by the child himself. They and other institutions need to be supported as they face the inevitable hostility that comes from the transgender community in its quest to impose a sick and cruel agenda on the rest of society.
Photo KSTP / KSTP.com
Denise C. McAllister is a journalist based in Charlotte, North Carolina, and a senior contributor to The Federalist. Follow her on Twitter @McAllisterDen.
Just wanted to say hi, and thanks so much for running this blog. It’s a wonderfully critical, wonderfully insightful resource.
I am a 19 year old, gnc lesbian, and as you can imagine I (and similar-aged lgb friends) have endured an incredible amount of pressure from trans activists over the past few years. Not just pressure to transition, but pressure to deny and redefine my own identity as a lesbian woman. My friends and I were regularly told that we had “dfab privilege” and therefore needed to sit down and shut up, told that we were hateful cissexists and disgusting “vagina fetishists” for not wanting to sleep with transwomen, that the sexual abuse and eating disorders many of us endured had nothing to do with the fact that we were biologically female and could not compare with the oppression suffered by transwomen, etc. I’m sure you are familiar with their abusive methods and tactics by now, so I won’t go into too much detail. You get the picture.
I eventually discovered radical feminism, escaped the cult, and came to embrace myself for who I am – an adult female human being – and everyday, I am so grateful that I did. But my friends were not so lucky. Many of them are now transitioning, and while it is so clear to me that their desire to transition is borne from trauma, they refuse to recognize this and I have effectively been cut out of their lives because I no longer believe in the trans-activist party line.
Young trans-identified people, my old friends included, sincerely believe that people who disagree with them actually wish for their destruction. Some of them are now defining “terf” not as trans-exclusionary, but as trans-*eliminationist* radical feminist. These people I love and care about so deeply have been brainwashed into believing that I hate them, and it breaks my heart. It really is a cult.
More and more young women are entering the queer/trans communities hoping to find shared community and understanding, but instead they are only finding more abuse, isolation, and exclusion. I’d really appreciate it if I could submit a post on my experiences at some point; I think my story is actually very common, and I think there are women out there who need to hear it, who need to know that they are not alone. I know I once did.
Thank you for this great comment. I started this blog because of young women like you. Would love to see a guest post from you. I will be in touch shortly.
Hi 4thwavenow. Just want to bring this Canadian story to your attention.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/transgender-puberty-treatment-court-1.3556898
The Canadian Press Posted: Apr 28, 2016 7:33 AM PT Last Updated: Apr 28, 2016 1:27 PM PT
Transgender child’s puberty-blocking drug triggers B.C. Supreme Court fight
– Father launched legal action to stop 11-year-old from taking drug to stop onset of puberty
A B.C. Supreme Court judge has ruled that an 11-year-old child diagnosed with gender dysphoria should have a legal representative in a parental dispute over medical treatment.
The child, identified only as J.K. in court documents, was born female and started transitioning to become male earlier this year with a treatment that includes taking a puberty-blocking drug.
After his father launched legal action to try to stop the drug treatment, Justice Ronald Skolrood appointed a litigation guardian to represent the child.
Court documents say the child displayed masculine tendencies from an early age and that when A.H. took him to buy sports bras last year, he became distraught, prompting his mother to take him to several doctors.
The documents say A.H. has been supportive of the transition but the child’s father, N.K., argues the treatment was undertaken without his consent and that the child has not been adequately assessed by experts.
N.K. believes that his child is being directed by a group of transgender activists and that he has concerns about what he believes is a dangerous drug.
‘Determining his own future’
Justice Skolrood said in a written decision released Wednesday that J.K. should be represented by a litigation guardian who can help him formulate views to present in court over his treatment.
“This case is really about J.K. and his role in determining his own future,” Skolrood wrote. “In my view, these issues cannot be properly considered without J.K.’s direct participation, nor would it be fair to J.K. for the court to attempt to do so.”
The guardian can also provide the child with “something of a buffer from the acrimony existing between his parents,” the judge said.
The parents, who have been married and divorced twice, will need to agree on who is appointed as the litigation guardian and if they cannot agree, A.H. will have the final say, he ruled.
Skolrood denied a request from A.H. to give her sole authority to make decisions about J.K.’s medical, social, gender, education and legal matters.
He also ruled that the child should continue the treatment pending additional court action by his parents.
Thank you for this.
I am crying in absolute relief and mortification at the same time – relief that I found somewhere that I can commiserate with others going through a similar situation, and mortified that this is going on at the same time… I am a mother of a just turned 13 year old daughter who has been, I believe, trying to shape herself into a male through Cosplay, and also in her daily life. She has been going through this since she had her hair cut shorter – just after she ended 5th grade… She had the longest most beautiful hair, and then, because she claimed it was in her way and was getting too tangled, she had it cut shorter… much shorter. And then the binding… first it was “just for cosplay”, and then it became an almost everyday thing.
Now – before I go on – I have to preface this by saying that I – when I was a young girl, a little girl (3, 4) – I was very much a “Tomboy” in the truest sense of the word. I also very much wanted to BE a boy. I hated wearing dresses, or having my hair “done” in curls, etc. I had an older brother, and wanted to do everything he did… and have the genitalia to match! … wanted to go shirtless, wanted to play boy’s sports (baseball, football, basketball, wrestling, etc.) wanted to play with boy’s toys (i.e., Tonka trucks, Hot Wheels, cars, boy’s bikes etc.), as well as playing with dolls too… I had my hair cut short – like a boy – for most of my elementary school years, up until 7th grade… when I let it grow long and had school pictures taken, and then afterwards, promptly had it cut very short, until I was in 8th grade. I also elected to wear mostly boys styled clothing. I even refused to take Home Ec classes…I took Shop classes instead, one of only two girls in the class… I was also very active in Drama classes all through those years. I had two close “Tomboy” friends, one of whom I played tackle football with in her backyard. Seems like I was headed for being a Transman, huh? Or even a Lesbian? But no. In my case, I hit puberty… actually I was having mad crushes on boys/men from about age 11 on up… and after going through “normal” puberty starting at age 14 (horrible skin, braces, glasses ugh!!) I started “dating” boys… After all that – you would think I would be confused about my sexuality – and even though there were a few slightly “experimental” early years with other girls (pretending to kiss and such) nothing came of that at all, and I became a fully boy crazy female!! I had nothing but boyfriends from then on… Had David Cassidy and Donny Osmond posters on my wall… as well as football posters! Long story I know. Even though I was sexually molested in junior high and high school by an older boy classmate, which was defused by my stellar protective male neighbors, I still was boy crazy. The urge to become a boy faded away, as the years went on, and I only retained the urges to still do the activities that boys did and play with them, in a general sense, but excluding going shirtless! Binding my chest was never really something I wanted to do, but I do remember other things I wanted to do to appear male. I have the pictures to prove it too! If anything, I believe I was “Gender Dysphoric”. No one said that to me however, way back then.
As it turns out, I embraced my femaleness, my femininity, over time, and went full out into that – makeup, hair, dresses (although I still hate dresses, have never been a girly-girl!) So years became decades, I had several long term relationships with men, before eventually marrying my daughter’s father, and then having my daughter. Separated for several years now (divorce not finalized but living apart), I have a boyfriend, and man, I feel like a woman!
Now I find my daughter, who really embraced being extremely girly-girl when younger, i.e., fully into the Barbies, dollhouses, baby dolls, American Girl dolls, dressing in dresses, high heels, gymnastics, cheerleading camp, etc., doing a complete flipflop into “boy” territory, with the short hair, the boy’s clothing, albeit she still is drawn to flowery hair pieces, shirts, etc. I cannot help but think that she is being swayed by the outer influences found only online and through her Cosplay participation, and who knows what. I’m simply worried about her, and who she may come into contact with. I already know someone who is currently going through difficulty with a spouse who has decided after more than two decades of marriage to transition into the opposite sex, and it is certainly an ordeal for all involved. Also, the friend I played football with? She eventually came out as Lesbian, after I had moved away. As someone who actually really wanted to transition to a male as a child, I’m so glad I didn’t! I think I would have been so wrong in doing so. I wouldn’t have gotten into the relationships I did, as a heterosexual I am living proof that kids/teens should really wait until after passing through the turbulent adolescent stage before transitioning at all into anything else. Once someone is an adult, then it I think it would be safe to explore that possibility. As a child – playing pretend – whether pretending to be Cinderella or Batman, boy or girl, etc. – it’s just how children learn who they are… there’s just no way of knowing your true gender or sexuality until after adolescence. At least that’s my opinion, from my perspective.
So, I am thoroughly relieved I’ve found your site. I am glad there is someone out there who does think in similar ways. Thank you.
FYI: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/transgender-puberty-treatment-court-1.3556898
That was an awesome and generous reply. And thanks for speaking up for the little girl; sort of like the little child who said–against a whole lying society–
“But the Emperor has no clothes on!”
4thwavenow…this video should absolutely be shown to young people who feel that they are trans.
In fact, they should watch the entire series. A trans man explains what dysphoria is *really* like…
Hello,
I’m a journalist on The Sunday Times. Id be keen to speak to the person running this site or any UK parents sharing experiences on it. I don’t think I can post my email (!) but my name is Katie Glass – maybe you can google me?! Or if the site admin could get in touch and we can make contact via her? You are very welcome to remain anonymous
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/18/science/transgender-children.html
“As Attention Grows, Transgender Children’s Numbers Are Elusive”
[This is categorized as a “Science” column]
These kids need to be treated for the trauma that caused their confusion. The nurses office bathroom should always an option. It’s ridiculous for them to think they need to hold it all day.
“Boy’s father has completed transgender process and now goes under female name”
Three month Supervision Order granted
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/school-principal-concerned-at-boy-s-transgender-process-1.2651155
School principal concerned at boy’s transgender process
Boy’s father has completed transgender process and now goes under female name
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/teacher-reveals-fears-for-primary-school-trans-pupil-400107.html
Teacher reveals fears for primary school trans pupil
Just bringing this new case to your attention. There seem to be other horrific aspects to this case involving other siblings.
Hello, my name is Ashton. I’m a sixteen year old FTM, and I’ve recently found your site. I’m glad I did. I’ve read most of your posts, and I can say I have yet to see any hateful posts. You guys are all a wonderful group of mothers, and I’m glad you’re putting the SAFETY of transgender youths before their emotions. I’m happy to say my mother was against giving me puberty blockers when I came out. I came out when I was eleven to my mother. I did not watch any TV or spend my time on the Internet. I have never even heard of what transgender was because I was too busy being a child. I simply started identifying as a boy, and only after gaining consistent Internet access, decided the best thing for me to be on was hormones after I’ve heard they’re safe. A plethora of trans advocates and psychologists said the best thing for me to do would be to try to pass and transition, and that’s what I had in mind. After talking to my mother boasting about how safe it was, I began taking them when I was fourteen.
As a transgender teen myself, I have been skeptical about encouraging giving hormones to transgender kids and the boasting about surgery as the cure, and after giving thought into these ideas, I now believe this is the wrong choice for transgender kids.
I’ve started to do much more critical research concerning transgender people. I’ve ran into many hateful sites on the way, and when I heard of you, I was almost sure it would be another group of hateful people degrading transgender people and their identity.
However, that’s not what you do. You want transgender kids to accept their bodies and rule out other disorders or trauma that would cause one to say they’re transgender instead of transitioning early. You also attack people’s arguments instead of themselves, respect identity when it’s called for, and admit the proof on the advocating side if any is presented.
The mental illness within transgenderism is not our identities, it’s how we make our identities, and I believe you guys are proving that. Transgender children–along with adults–should be embracing their bodies AND their identity. Hormones and surgery are not the answer. Instead of supporting the delusion that we were born in the wrong body, we should be supporting the identity and the fact we’re transgender instead of trying to make it seem otherwise. The mental disorder within transgenderism lies within supporting the idea that if you inject hormones and get a phenotype that says you’re a man or woman, than you are a man or woman. Transgender people are convinced by these psychologists that being a man or woman is all about how you appear instead of focusing on the achievements and how you live your life as being the attributes that form your identity, and this is where we have failed them.
I am now learning to accept my body and embrace my identity and realize it’s more than how you look. We should be supporting this idea; not the idea hormones and surgery make you as an individual.
Ashton, thank you for commenting here–and understanding where we are coming from here at 4thWaveNow. I may use your comment in a post soon. It’s very interesting to hear about your journey of self discovery. Very best wishes to you and your mom!
Thank you! You have full permission to.
I would also like to note a few things within my journey that are similar to some of the stories I’ve read on here that you may want to include.
When I came out as transgender, I didn’t feel confused. I felt happy and healthy. I never felt the need to tell anyone I was transgender nor did I make an ordeal about my body. I continued to play with gender specific toys of both genders, and I even at times dressed as a girl when girls came over to play with me. As far as I was concerned, I was simply a feminine boy with a female body that developed crushes on both genders. Since I hit puberty quickly and was already having issues at school due to non-related issues, my mother pulled me out of school and home-schooled to prevent me from being bullied and to further my education. Although I grew up watching very little TV and didn’t have much access to the Internet since we didn’t have the money at the time, she wanted to see if my identity continued within the next two years.
It was when I got my first gender therapist at thirteen that things started to go wrong. The psychologist that worked with me at that age began questioning if I was transgender because at the time, I was very happy with my body image. It was SHE who insisted that I was trapped in the wrong body and meant to be born with specific anatomical features. Only THEN did I start to feel ashamed for my female features. I started to feel as if my identity was about having a penis, having muscles, playing with all boy toys, and wearing all boys clothes. She told me if I dressed in girl clothes, played with girl toys, and acted feminine, I was most likely not transgender. She admitted she doubted my identity, and I began to feel bad. I began to feel like I couldn’t be a normal boy that liked girly things because I was born a girl since in her eyes, being transgender was about fitting a an image both behaviorally and anatomically. I started to dress in all boy clothes, I stopped talking in my cute voice, I shamed my sexuality, and I cut my long hair that I enjoyed. My identity became more and more about passing as a boy, and less and less about me. Only THEN did I began to be upset about not receiving hormones; only THEN did I began to HATE my own mother for not allowing me to transitions, and only THEN did I began to feel confused. After all, before, I was just a boy that liked feminine things. Now, I was a TRANSGENDER boy that couldn’t dare liking feminine things since being transgender–apparently–is all about fitting an image.
The woman that was supposed to help me accept my identity was the same woman that destroyed it. After a year of fighting, suicide attempts, and shame from the therapist, my mother caved into giving me hormones. She stopped home-schooling me and we barely communicated. I was confused. I was ashamed of my body. I was ashamed whenever I thought a boy was cute.
The suicide attempts continued and I was taken to the hospital twice until I got another therapist halfway through being fourteen.
She was a Christian grandmother of two, and I was the first transgender patient she ever had. When I met her, things only started to get better for me. She was originally hesitant about the disorder, and she refrained from calling me any pronoun worried she would be encouraging my already current suffering.
Though, with time, we learned from each other. Her words changed how I saw myself, and I only began to improve as an individual from there. She realized that it wasn’t me being a “he”, “him”, or “boy”, that was causing my distress. It was how I saw my body and what made my identity that made me depressed. I was DEPRESSED because my body didn’t MATCH my identity. I was DEPRESSED because to be a boy I apparently HAD to look like one, I HAD to be masculine, I HAD to like girls since that is what being a boy was about. My identity was all about fitting into a category.
For the last year and a half, she coached me to accept my body. She embraced my identity, and I embraced mine. She helped me come to conclusions that I was bisexual, that I was feminine, and I wanted long hair. She encouraged me to live as a man, and let my reactions, achievements, and how I treat others define my identity. After I learned to accept who I was, my depression and anxiety revolving it went away, and I no longer feel shamed. I started going back to school, and I am now an A student enrolled in multiple AP and honor classes, me and my parents get along great, and I am dual-enrolling in a neuroscience class, computer programming class, and multiple math classes.
I am growing my hair out again, I am wearing the cute pink boy clothes I wanted to wear, and have been in a healthy relationship with another teen boy for three years now.
Hormones and surgery are not the answer EVEN if they make you happy. Learn how to accept yourself and your body. Take into consideration why you may be transgender. Don’t let your emotions feed delusions.
This is my story, and I hope you share it. I was “helped” by a woman who only confused me. She didn’t accept me as a boy. She wanted to accept what her version of was a transgender boy. I was happy. She confused me. She made me feel bad. She DIDN’T respect my identity. She respected what she thought a boy was supposed to be. I wasn’t suicidal and depressed because I identified as a boy. I was suicidal and depressed because the same trans advocate that said she was for me was for me being a stereotype.
It was the “evil” Christian grandmother that not only used my pronouns and accepted my identity at the end of the day AND listened to my story, she also helped me accept who I was.
She told me I wasn’t born in the wrong body. I was not born a boy. I HAVE XX chromosomes. I am feminine, and I should be proud of that. I was born a healthy girl, and I later identified as a boy. SHE told me that was okay. It was okay to be a boy that was feminine born a girl.
Ashton,
Thank you for your comment here. I’m glad that you found this site and that you see value in how 4th Wave represents her positions.
One of the things that has concerned me for young folks is understanding how I myself felt as a teen. Back then we didn’t have transition as a readily available option at all. It existed, but it was very rare, especially for females.
I have the feeling that if I was the me I was at 12-20 these days, I would have been guided toward transition. And I am grateful that it was not what I did, because for me, it would not have been the proper choice.
I believe I did experience dysphoria. I would have given anything for my body to not have changed during puberty. It felt like such a betrayal. I was lucky to eventually, via feminism, to come to realize that it wasn’t my body that I hated so much as the treatment that having a female body garnered me from other people. There was the unwanted attention from men and boys. There were the social expectations and limitations… all the things I was constantly being told girls could not do or were supposed to do…and none of it matched my personality.
Anyway… one of the ways I found healing was if finding community with other women and girls who were like me. I was lucky enough to have 25+ plus years of working at the Michigan Womyn’s Music Festival. Last year was its final year at 40. So we don’t have that particular space anymore. But women are working on other ways to gather including attending other festivals like National which is in Madison Wisconsin at the end of June beginning of July .
I’m putting that out there even though you already have the identity as trans. National is actually open so…you’d be good either way.
But what I really wanted to mention here is that my concern is really that young folks know there are options besides or in addition to transition. And I don’t know how easy it is to learn that. I learned it at Michigan. And so now since it is no more, some friends and I are working on a way to stay connected and to put ourselves out there as examples of ways one can present as a female.
If you are interested in checking us out you can see some of what we are just getting started with our podcast series at http://www.wantedpodcast.com
We also have a Facebook page.
In any case, I wish you the best in your journey.
Thank you for your wishes, and I will check out your site.
I’m grateful that I did not transition and decided to look more into the transgender trend and the truth revolving around how it is modernly “treated”.
As you read, the same medical expert(s) that were trying to help me were only encouraging unhealthy behaviors. Although I know they all meant well, what they convinced me of were inherently sexist and medically unnecessary.
Although adults do and should have the freedom to get surgery and hormones if they please, I truly think we should be encouraging transgenders that hormones and surgery are not the answer.
These treatments merely–in my opinion–further a fantasy that if one alters their body that suddenly the parts they had at birth won’t be relevant, and refusing to acknowledged one natural state is never a healthy decision.
While I don’t think the gender identity of someone should be reverted and that it it should respected, I do think we need to start helping transgender people accept their interests and bodies.
As many of pointed out already, many of people claiming to be transgender are simply people ashamed of being seen a certain way in others eyes, people ashamed of their sexuality, and people that have comorbid disorders influencing their identity.
I can say from personal experience–at least–when I did try to find a community of transgender teens that I could speak with, it led on my Tumblr, and what I saw there was repulsing.
I’d even say some of the “transgender” people I met on their offended me.
The whole month I stayed on that site, all I saw were girls that had fetishes for boy-on-boy love claiming they wish they had penises, shaming feminism as if being a woman is a bad thing, fawning over transgender men and their transitions, and wanting to feel victimized. They would constantly post videos about their transgender struggles; some would even dress up as women in public and write essays about how offensive it was that everyone was misgendering them. These girls would indulge themselves in the transgender culture and blow up will walls of text towards anyone that critiqued their identities when they came out, and after I got blown up on myself, I left that toxic community. They weren’t transgender men, they were girls with a fetish and an agenda. I’m sorry if that sounds cruel, but that is what I saw.
They were angry at me for asking the same questions that the women on 4thwave ask. They weren’t offensive, but I was curious; especially after what I saw.
It upset me personally since the story I wanted to share among the same group that was making a fetish of it was important to me.
My story didn’t revolve around spending a week on Tumblr obsessing over a community only then to come out a week later, my story didn’t revolve around wanting a penis, my story didn’t revolve around being upset about having big boobs, and it certainly didn’t revolve around wanting to be in a boy-on-boy relationship.
It wasn’t the community I wanted to be in. I wanted to be in a community that was realistic and supporting; much like this one. Unfortunately, that’s just not a group that exists among transgender people right now, and it’s definitely not something that exists in the right-winged community.
I wanted a community of teens that talked about transgenderism and their struggles, but I didn’t just want a community that was all rainbows and hugs. I wanted a tough community of transgender teens. I wanted a community in which we’d be able to critique transgenderism, support what parts of it made sense, and rule which parts didn’t.
Though, the moment you try to speak realistically to most transgender individuals–especially teens–you get attacked.
The world needs to work off a perfect balance of empathy and logic, and right now logic is being disregarded.
I think it’s great parents are accepting their children, but being a parent, a friend, a sibling, or anyone at that matter, people should also take into consideration the person’s individual health.
Anyways, I hope my story gets shared, and I’ll only hope that other transgender kids see that there are other transgender kids that DIDN’T transition and are happy along with heathier. I also hope that radical conservative moms that come across your site realize that you can be transgender and be healthy without transitioning. Your site has been shared by many hateful conservative pages on Facebook, and that’s not what you stand for! You can be transgender without all that transitioning and abstention that comes with therapists trying to convince you that you have to look and act a certain way to identify as a boy or girl nonsense, and you can have an identity opposite of what’s assigned to you at birth and still grow up healthy.
I’m glad you 4thwave is supportive community that presents tough subjects to talk about, and I hope 4thwave makes a Facebook soon! I feel very safe in this community right now. You don’t misgender transgender individuals that you believe are “truly” transgender as I’ll call it, and 4thwave presents good arguments. I’ve always thought being a radical hateful conservative in no better than being a radically supportive liberal.
I plan on sticking around here, and if I can contribute any interesting content on both the opposing side and advocating side, I will.
Until then, I hope we all as a community fight to protect transgender kid’s rights, their identities, and THEIR HEALTH. We need to speak up against both the overly liberal and overly conservative community.
http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/teenagers/1464511-My-14-Old-Daughter-Says-She-Wants-to-be-a-Boy
Hi – Thanks so much for setting up this blog. It is such a support to find critically thinking people on this subject. I thought I’d share this convo on mumsnet (not sure if you will have seen it already) that I have found helpful – I havn’t personally contributed to the convo but am going though a very similar thing as these mums with my 14yr old.
Plus, a recent article written for the New Statesman:
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/feminism/2016/05/so-many-teenage-girls-don-t-want-identify-girls-any-more-and-who-can-blame
Thanks
Hey, it’s Ashton again. I’ve been doing some research on transgenderism. I’ve been on a journey to figure out what biological research there is on transgenderism and what biological evidence there is against transgenderism (such as the analysis of your brain sex study).
If you have the time, would you briefly analyze some of these? I’m trying to find a statistical analyst who specifically specializes in noticing an accurate study and whether the conclusions were correct. I’m also trying to contact a neuroscientist that’s neither liberal or conservative. He/she spoken up about inaccurate transgender studies and accurate transgender studies, so he seems like a good fit for neutral picking. So far, I’ve only been able to contact one, and the only thing they told me is that the neurological community doesn’t know if male and female brains are different or the same yet due to many conflicting studies, so using anything other genes and fetal development wouldn’t be anything more than another addition to the collection when it comes to understanding if transgenderism is biological: I believe he’s saying using neuroscience in this day and age right now is a poor thing to use when concerning transgenderism.
Any help or reply or reference would be nice!
http://www.religioustolerance.org/transsexu3.htm
http://aebrain.blogspot.com/p/transsexual-and-intersex-gender-identity.html
I’m aware the list comes from a transgender woman’s page, so it’s clearly to make it appear it’s biological. However, I’ve been tirelessly reading as many studies as I can to try to confirm their accuracy, and they all seem to be biologically related with no liberal bias.
So far, most have been accurate.
I’m doing this for pure interest. I don’t support the idea of transgender children transitioning until they’re adults.
I’m also looking into what cross-hormones do to both adults and children. There is two extremely opposing sides with one saying it’s safe and one saying it’s not. I’m looking into both. One thing any non-clueless person can confirm is that it will cause sterility if they’ve taken hormone blockers before hormones. Even without hormone blockers–in case you aren’t aware–it’s been suggested by even advocating transgender groups that cross-hormones reduce the ability to have kids.
Hey ashton, you might be interested in Yorick’s opinion on the subject, as he, a trans man, is also talking about the causes of transgenderism: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1brOoVMeidk
Yorick appears to suffer from actual body dysmorphia – not a case of gender feelz, but the feeling that body and mind are mismatched. I don’t entirely agree that trans people are simply the wrong sexed brain in the wrong body but I will simply pass the link along if you are interested in the research…
Cool! Thank you!
my experience with cross sex hormones comes for my brother who started hormones in the late 1960’s. twenty years later, she was paralysed from strokes, embolisms and multiple sclerosis….these side-effects have been noted in some studies.
I am the mother of a 15 year old girl who has always been non-gender conforming but never called herself a boy. A year ago she came out as lesbian, and about 3 months ago told me she is transgender. The internet played a huge part in the development of this. In the interim she had created an online persona as a transman and met a girlfriend online, (now IRL) who uses male pronouns for my daughter. My daughter is now encouraging her friends to do the same. She starts college in September (she will be 16) and is wanting to use male pronouns from the outset. I think this is way too soon and is the first step on a very rocky road. I challenge the current trans narrative and its doublespeak. I would like to get her into therapy, but am intimidated by the pro-active, enabling, you-say-it-so-it-must-be-so climate. I don’t know where to begin in trying to find a therapist who will not immediately enable and speed her still faster along this road. We are in London, UK. Does anyone know how I can locate an unbiased or radfem therapist for her to talk to?
Sorry to hear your all-too-familiar circumstances, Juliet.
I suggest you contact Youth Trans Critical Professionals, who might be able to advise on a sensible therapist near you?
https://youthtranscriticalprofessionals.org/about/
Thank you, I will try that.
Do you have any knowledge of legal resources that are available to parents who feel their child has been coerced into medical or social transition to the opposite sex? Thank you for this blog!
So this trans man had to go off testosterone in order to have ‘his’ eggs harvested…
https://ca.style.yahoo.com/a-long-way-to-go-for-transgender-people-and-183127936.html
Human rights complaint though? Seriously? all because people didn’t use the right pronouns?
I thought this was very astute.
https://aeon.co/essays/the-idea-that-gender-is-a-spectrum-is-a-new-gender-prison?preview=true
In case this fine article on children’s gender was missed…
http://www.jpands.org/vol21no2/cretella.pdf
This is the most important statement in this article: The treatment of GD in childhood with hormones effectively amounts to mass experimentation on, and sterilization of, youth who are cognitively incapable of providing informed consent. There is a serious ethical problem with allowing irreversible, life-changing procedures to be performed on minors who are too young to give valid consent themselves.
I truly hope that many parents and children end up litigating and sucking the money out of this tragic trend by doctors and therapists AND drug companies who should be arrested for child abuse and malpractice. That will be the only thing that gets their attention.
Always, always follow the money. Check this out:
https://gendertrender.wordpress.com/2015/05/31/wpath-would-like-to-thank-our-sponsors-for-their-generous-support/
copy and paste in your browser!
Dear 4thwavenow friends,
Is there anyone here with legal knowledge or an attorney who is also living this nightmare of having your child lost to this madness? I truly believe it will only be the money that gets their attention. Can we not take legal action against the ‘gender’ therapists, doctors and drug companies who are handing these hormones out and offering surgeries? What would we say to a plastic surgeon who told us and one of our under age flat chested daughters that ‘you can’t be a “real” woman unless you have at least a C cup, like RIGHT NOW!
I would truly like to hear from someone in the legal profession.
Thank you,
While there’s valuable food-for-thought in the above link, it needs to be noted that the American College of Pediatricians is a right-wing, Christian conservative group that the Southern Poverty Law Center has marked as a hate group. It should not be confused with the actual science-based American Academy of Pediatrics 😉
Thank you so much for responding. I just don’t want to be alone in this. I awake every morning at 3 and panic. I move throughout the day on eggshells and pray for the moments she is my little girl again. The hardest part is knowing she does not accept what beauty she has been given naturally. That she wants to make herself as plain and even as ugly as she can be. It’s so painful to watch her hide and cower and turn away from the world.
I am feeling the exact same feelings as my 14 year daughter told me last weekend that she is transgender – totally unexpected. She want to cut her long beautiful hair and go shopping for new boy clothes this weekend before she goes back to school (starting high school). My husband and I really think that she has been highly influenced by the internet and some friends she made last year. I have been reading as much as I can and feel so torn – don’t know which direction to go next. Am I a bad parent because I am not 100% “on board” and accepting or a good parent because I want her to look at all the all sides such as regret and medical issues in the future. I would love to find a psychologist or counselor who could help her sort out her feelings without pushing her in one direction or another. Suggestions on how to locate a professional to help us?
Hey 4thwave, have you heard of Kay Brown?
https://web.archive.org/web/20150630165747/https://sillyolme.wordpress.com/advice-to-parents-of-transkids/
Kudos to Kay Brown for being honest about AGP.
No thanks, try somewhere else.
Dorothy, did you even read the page that I linked?
I don’t agree with everything this Kay Brown has written, but I am glad to see that some trans people are honest about AGP etc.
For the record I am gender critical and a fan of 4thwave and I 100% support every thing on this site.
I read it and I felt like many of the statistics are the opposite of what is normally presented–unless I misunderstood?
‘You may win some battles but lose the war’ – well, on some level maybe, but my 15 year old daughter wanted to start college with male pronouns and I said no, you can’t. (Harsh, maybe). I also told her repeatedly that she was not, and could never be, a boy. A few months later, after talking to a friend who had lived as a boy for a year and them desisted, she decided she wasn’t a boy after all. If I had said ‘yes dear, go ahead’ with the pronoun change, and carted her off to a therapist, she would be in a very awkward situation right now, probably on the waiting list for the Tavistock, preparing to start college either as a boy, or facing telling the college she had ‘changed her mind’. Encouraging your child to wait, wait, wait…. can really help some kids. They are kids, after all, and kids are whimsical. Passionately, earnestly whimsical yes, but whimsical nonetheless. I realise we aren’t necessarily out of the woods with my daughter, I’m aware that she may re-identify, but I did everything I was advised not to do by ‘the internet’ and (fingers crossed) it turned out right for us. This site helped immeasurably.
So my 10-year-old daughter who was complete sugar and spice and everything nice until she was 8 declared she was transgender when she was 9 (after a discussion at her very liberal and affirming school about Caitlyn Jenner). At first I didn’t take it that seriously, partly because she still refers to herself with birth name and pronouns (and as a girl, most of the time, she has never said “I am a boy,” just “I want to be a boy” or “I feel like a boy”). Her teacher said she didn’t think she knew what it meant. But she recently came home asking about puberty suppression hormones and I LOST IT.
My husband, who was calmer, and I are completely on the same page that this is not an appropriate treatment for her. She wears mostly boys’ clothes (though lately has been accepting girls’ versions of them that better fit her growing body) and I let her get her hair cut short. She has two close natal-male friends, one of whom actively presents as a girl–and may be taking the suppressors, I’m not sure–the other who is quite “feminine.” Her natal-female friends have mostly slipped away. She likes being mistook for a boy by strangers, but I’ve told her she can’t lie about what she is.
This site has been a boon. I’m encouraging more female-empowerment activities in the fall and also consulting a family therapist. But any war stories related to this particular age group would be welcome. Terrified of what’s coming down the road. Thanks so much.
You may have noticed the push back,largely thanks to you, as starting to rise in visibility.
Rod Dreher, a very articulate conservative, quoted you. And the description
of TG contagion/trending as similar to anorexia and bulimia and the other
body-harming disorders is coming forward. With exact appropriateness, in my opinion.
Attack on the body; not good in any description.
thanks,
Bryan Z.
________________________________
I apologize for the late reply, but I’m sorry to hear about what your daughter and your family are going through. I am sad to see that our tomboys are being erased.
I suggest getting her involved in some extra-curricular activities to focus her thoughts on being a kid and having fun instead of on gender. She needs to know that it’s okay to enjoy childhood and save such big decisions for when she is grown up.
I also strongly suggest keeping her away from any gender therapists. They tend to put kids on a path to transition. If you decide to use a therapist, you should interview them first to make sure they are a good fit for your child.
Hello. I follow your blog and am so grateful for the charitable tone and scientific knowledge you infuse it with. I just did a guest post on Youth Trans Critical Professionals detailing my battle against the parents of a transgender kindergartener and gender activists who destroyed the public school my kids attended. I’m wondering if you’d be interested in reblogging it. I hope to spread the word far and wide as the new school year approaches that parents need to be aware of gender activism in the classroom. Thank you for all you do!
Please see this new post, which features your own and adds more stories from parents. Thank you for your contribution!
So glad to find your site. Cari’s video and posting was so powerful and helpful, but many of us have sons going through this, too. I know that the site focuses more on daughters, which is understandable. But would you consider by any chance reblogging the “detransition” video that was posted today on ThirdWayTrans? It’s getting, thankfully, easier to find “detransition” blogs from women reclaiming their bodies but there are so few by men [making it seem as though men who transition have no regrets], and this speaker is particularly articulate in addressing why medical transition caused even more problems, including health problems that he suffers to this day. Would also be great to see an interview with him on this blog. I think what he said about the connection to OCD and compulsive behaviors is also really important and strikes a familiar chord. Also his comments on social contagion and greater awareness, and how it is a combination of both but that the social contagion factor is certainly there. Thanks again for a great resource — much needed!
Welcome. And yes indeed, we’d be open to featuring Third Way Trans in a post. Stay tuned.
This blog is a lifesaver for me! Grounded, sane, curious people – everything my daughter-trans-man is not!
In the last two years, I’ve read a ton of trans books. And the book that really described my daughter? “The Secret Language of Eating Disorders,” by Peggy Claude-Pierre. Except that my daughter doesn’t have an eating disorder…
I’ve come to the conclusion – at least for my kid and many like her – that trans is the new anorexia.
Not for nothing, but it would be interesting to see if the spike in trans diagnosis parallels at all with a decline in anorexia diagnosis. I’m not sure if it’s significant enough to be detected like that. Or if stats on anorexia are even kept.
Woo for you and your daughter.
The Adrienne Rich quote is just perfect for this site. A real stroke of genius.
One of my favorite poets of all time, who I feel certain would be firmly behind us.
Hi, I am a mom of a FTM 14 year old. She was influenced by some girls at school around the end of 7th grade (13 years old) that she might be in the wrong body, etc. She researched it and has delved heavily into this subject on the internet and in social media. She “came out” to me and her dad shortly after the start of 8th grade, last October. She is cross dressing and binding. I need to know what to do. Any suggestions are appreciated. She lies and sneaks binders. I threw 2 away. She is asking for duct tape now (to bind her breasts, I’m sure). I am unable to find a therapist that does not support this. A good therapist is not on my insurance and I can’t afford it right now. Can I forbid the cross-dressing? as time goes on (it has been a year now), I feel like she is getting worse. This all happened suddenly. Now she has friends and social media helping her and supporting her–calling her, him and he:( I also want to cut off the internet and tell her I can’t afford it. She will still get on at her friends houses, but at least it she will not have all the access she has now. I know she did this to try and be trendy, to fit in and have friends. Right before she decided she was not a girl any longer, she was having friend problems her first year in Junior High and she lost some long-time friends, so she was vulnerable and depressed (I guess they really weren’t true friends). She thinks transitioning will solve all her problems. I am homeschooling this year because the public school supports her transitioning too, and did so without informing me (of her name change and gender change). Any advice or help is so appreciated. Sadly there are Not many places for me to turn to. Thanks!
brindy22, sorry you are struggling with this too. I wish I had sure fire advice, but I don’t. Just keep hanging in there. If you can, try to get her involved in an extra curricular activity (or activities) that gets her moving, keeps her busy (which has the fringe benefit of keeping her off the internet), helps her make new friends.
At about a year into this, I’m guessing you are no longer able to have productive conversations with your daughter about this. Are there any other adults in your life that you think may be a positive influence? If your daughter is anything like mine, she’ll ignore your advice, but be more open to hearing it from other adults.
I haven’t tried this myself, but other mothers that have recommended that volunteering somewhere may be beneficial. Maybe she would like taking care of animals, serving at a soup kitchen, helping out in a hospital, reading to children, etc. If she puts in effort to help others, she may feel less stressed herself, and potentially less desperate to escape her body.
And, please be kind to yourself. You are in an extremely stressful situation. And no one else really “gets it,” but others that are going (or have gone) through it. Please come here often. It helps just knowing that you’re not alone in this. Wishing you the best!
Hi Overwhelmed, How is your daughter doing? How old is she?
This has been a nightmare for me! Extremely stressful! My daughter has delved deeply into this trans thing via internet and social media. She got most of her coaching and support there. She was getting militant with us for calling her the name we gave her or the “incorrect” pronoun. She was begging for hormone blockers and testosterone. I’m going to be getting rid of as much of the social media and internet access that as I can especially YouTube. She had even set up a GoFundMe for donations for her “Top Surgery”! This all happened out of the blue. I should have yanked her out of the public school when I discovered all this last November. My husband tried to set up parental controls, but she bypassed them. Little by little she tries to “pass” as a boy. I try not to make a big deal about it because she is the oppositional type.
I am so disgusted with how the trans thing is being promoted and encouraged by so many people with greedy agendas (i.e. the doctors, politicians). Have not heard much about Caitlin Jenner, Woman of the Year, lately–that sure did not help impressionable young teens. The public schools where I live are letting the kids change their name and gender at school; this policy was implemented by the school board in 2014 with no announcement or information home to the parents. They can go to whatever bathroom they want. I found out that my daughter was using the restroom in the nurses office (no longer using the girls restroom). The school was calling her the new name (and perhaps the new pronoun) without telling or informing me. I was shocked–more and more parents will be going through the same thing. But sadly for the kids, some parents won’t be as skeptical as we are.
She will soon be taking drivers ed because she is turning 15 at the end of November. I am hoping that helps in the way of an extracurricular activity. I will try to find other ways her busy, too.
We do not have any adults I can think of who can make a positive influence. My husband and I have small families who are not close. I hope someone comes into our life. You are right, she ignores the advice of my husband and me.
Thanks for the ideas regarding volunteering. She enjoys young children–so perhaps reading to them would be something she would really like to do.
Thanks again. So glad I found you all!
Hi Brindy22, I’m sorry to be welcoming you to this unenviable “club.” Overwhelmed has given you good advice; we are all just kind of feeling our way through this blindly, testing out different approaches and figuring out what works for each family and kid. I love the advice for volunteer work, as trans seems to be a first-world, upper-middle-class sort of problem for kids who are looking for a problem to attach their teenage angst to.
It does seem to help to try and de-emphasize trans as much as possible, subtly, without brining it up, if possible. Personally, I do not call my daughter “he” or “they,” nor do I call her the name she has picked out for herself, although she has never actually asked me to.
As far as clothes go, I let her dress how she wants and get her hair cut as she wants. She bought herself a binder. If she wore it every day I might consider throwing it out, but because she used her own money to buy it, and she only wears it about once a week, I have let the binder slide. However, every so often I do discuss with her the physical dangers of wearing binders, which of course she immediately dismisses and tells me how uneducated I am, that certain brands are safe and she “knows what she is doing” (bullshit).
Anyway, I apologize for talking about my own situation too much rather than giving advice. I guess what I’m trying to get across is it seems to help somewhat when parents don’t make a huge daily issue of the big trans elephant in the room, but at the same time don’t buy into it or go along with it. Clothes and hair are just clothes and hair; plenty of women want short hair and comfortable clothes that aren’t fussy, tight, or revealing, and don’t scream “sexpot female.” But anything beyond clothing and hair, in my opinion, feeds too much power and energy to the trans monster and/or is physically dangerous, and I refuse to go along with it.
It seems many of these girls are lesbians or perhaps future lesbians, so accepting your daughter as a homosexual and/or helping your daughter accept herself as a homosexual may help in the long run, as she will not feel like she needs to “correct” her homosexuality and become a “straight boy”. In cases where the girls are hetero, one theory that seems to fit a number of girls is they feel pressure to be sexualized or they feel sexually harassed, or they have already been through some sort of trauma (sexual assault or even a nonsexual trauma), or they see that males generally have better opportunities in life, and the girls believe becoming a male will instantly make them stronger, more dignified, have more opportunities, be able to morph into someone other than who they are, make their old self disappear, or be left alone (no more sexual harassment).
I have seen trans compared to anorexia (girls wanting to disappear, become someone else or achieve a body that does not attract male sexual attention). I have also seen it compared to “Goth” (outcast kids who want to belong to a group, or “edgy” kids who want to be in-your-face rebellious).
Most of these kids have underlying psychiatric problems; some of those I see mentioned over and over again are Aspergers (or Aspergers-like behavior), autism, anxiety, depression, PTSD, ADHD, and OCD. Does your daughter have any of those, or anything similar? If so, see if you can find a therapist who will agree in advance, before actually seeing your daughter, that they will work on the underlying issue and treat the trans stuff as a symptom of the underlying issue. You may be able to sell this more easily if you provide the therapist with a copy of one of the recent articles comparing trans to anorexia, or exposing the social contagion phenomenon that is occurring with trans. Looking for a therapist who specializes in girls with eating disorders might also help.
Sorry this is so long! Keep us posted, and feel free to come here and vent. Best wishes to you and your daughter.
Thank you so much for taking the time to respond. Also, Thanks for sharing your situation–it helps me because I have felt so alone–it seems the world is upside down. I think my daughter is trying to be “edgy”/trendy and belong to a group. She has always been rebellious. I think she thinks this will help her be stronger, too.
I also have a feeling she was harassed by some of the middle school boys because she had a cute figure which she now hides. She is also trying to make her old self disappear which is very,very sad for me. (It’s like she is trying to kill her old self.) She will not go by her given name. She is trying to run away from her old self which she feels was not socially successful or accepted by her peers.
She is depressed and has just started medicine for ADHD. I don’t feel I can trust any therapists because they might be too supportive of her transitioning. Before I knew better, I tried 3 therapists and they were not very helpful. She came out of some sessions more upset talking about killing herself. You are right about trying to get them to agree to treating the underlying issue, but not sure they would and she refuses to see a Christian therapist. That is the only therapist I feel I can trust to not support and encourage her transitioning.
I love the idea of volunteer work. I will be checking into that.
Thanks for all your suggestions!
One thing my husband and I have done – while our daughter obsesses about trans, we focus on talking with her about the long term, the bigger picture, all the things teens need to learn before leaving home.
For instance – exploring college/post-secondary programs/career options
– learning the things you need to be able to do as a young adult – laundry, some cooking.
– having her get a job so she can provide her own spending money, help save for college, etc. When our daughter got her first job, we offered to help her fund a Roth IRA in her name.
– have her get a checking account or a credit card – at our bank, our accounts are linked, so we can see what she’s spending.
– ask someone at your church or synagogue to ask your kid to help teach Sunday school, etc., regularly provide cookies for coffee hour
We found these things effective because our daughter was determined to have trans hijack every conversation. By helping her build some leaving-home-as-a-young-adult skills, I think it helped calm some of her home-leaving anxiety. Trans seemed to be a way to “armor” herself for going to college.
Your kid’s situation may be very different, so this may or may not be helpful.
Our brilliant family therapist told us that for high school students, being trans – and having conflict with your parents over trans – can give you a lot of social cache among your peers.
It became clear that our daughter’s interest in trans way to rebel – and we didn’t want to have conflict over trans that would only add fuel to her rebellion.
So we focused on the bigger picture – yes, you are growing up, making your own decisions, and are starting a life of your own…
We’re doing EXACTLY the same thing here. We don’t talk trans unless there is an issue that comes up. We talk about school, college, hobbies, her part-time job, boys, what she’s doing with friends, etc. We focus on the normal teenage “stuff.” I want my daughter to see that life can be wonderful, even without hormones and surgery. I have come to terms with the fact that my kid will do what she wants when she’s an adult. All I can do is give her the tools to build a good life for herself.
Same same, three years into the initial “maybe I’m trans” stage. My kid presents the way she wants to, I pay for the short hair cuts and the guy clothes, and she’s got a couple binders that I’d dearly love to get her out of but so far no go. (Though I do often drop the “those are dangerous and here’s why” verbiage on her, as well as the “you MUST minimize your daily use of those things” message. She resists but at least she is hearing my concern for her health. I’m not with her each day any more — she’s at college — so that’s all I can do.)
Other than that, it’s been a lot of ignore/distract. This worked very well in HS and it’s still working, though who knows what the future will bring. We talk almost daily about classes, extracurriculars, and especially adult activities of daily life, stuff about safe driving and car maintenance, laundry, self-care health routines that don’t involve trans, feeding yourself, street smarts, finances, and … stuff you can do to help make the world a better place, esp through volunteer service. These are things that are beneficial to independence and happiness, regardless of where this gender business goes.
It is harder to do all these things if the kid is in a super-intense LGBTIAQ+allies culture, where your gender ID is the CENTRAL ISSUE OF YOUR LIFE and the source of constant focus and feedback. We were fortunate in that it was not a big deal in my kid’s high school and that she is not going to a trendy humanities-focused liberal arts college, or one of the Ivies. Most of the kids that go to her school are from a more blue-collar environment and pretty focused on earning a living, and/or traditional “party arts,” lol. Sigh.
I used to think “ignore/distract” was a dangerous cop-out and that I should be centering, discussing, probing, etc etc etc. (Women are socialized to think they’re obligated to be everyone’s supportive analyst; I sure drank that Koolaid.) But frankly, ignore/distract seems to be working. The kid is doing well, conquered major challenges in HS, had many friends, is starting to navigate college, etc. She has what I consider a typical amount of anxiety/homesickness at this stage. She’d have to be displaying some bigger red flags for me to change course now. I hope she eventually gets to a stage of maturity where she is ready to unpack the real roots of her aversion to the concept of herself as “woman”; I’ve got some perceptions about all that, but I know she in no way is ready to go there. The gender-defiant presentation is an armor of sorts, and right now she clearly needs it. Maybe she always will.
for what it’s worth. hang in there, parents.
I have been reading 4thWaveNow for about 6 months now. I am very grateful to have found this community. Many thanks to the creator of the blog. I have 2 young adult kids who have both been transitioning medically over the past year. One is FtM, the other is MtF. Both are on the autism spectrum and have a great many of the predisposing factors discussed on this blog and in the stories of the de-transitioners I have followed. Since both kids are legally adults there was no stopping this. It emerged suddenly and both progressed to medical treatments rapidly. My husband and I were blindsided. And neither transition rings true. I have much to say, but am unsure about the best way to begin to engage on this site. Is it possible to ask the creator of the blog a few questions about how to be most efficient/effective, or should I just launch my story here on the “introduction page”?
Hi TwoCanaries, I really feel for you and I am very sad to read this. I just found this blog about a month ago. I am so afraid that I will be in the same situation as you when my daughter turns 18. She is almost 15 now.
I was able to get a quicker response from the creator of this blog on Tumblr. Try that–she has so much knowledge of what is going on in society regarding transgender issue and what we are going through as parents.
I would be really interested in writing a blog post for you. My 16 year old daughter has just decided she is not a boy after all, after 6 months of identifying as male. I did not support this decision, change her pronouns or her name, or sign her up to a gender clinic. I was openly gender critical. This site has been invaluable to me, as has gendercriticaldad’s blog and the writings of Cari and others. It is a long story, and I have learned as least as much as my daughter. Please contact me if you would like me to submit something.
Yes please! Will email you shortly.
I cannot believe that I finally found a place for parents like me. Who’s gut is screaming this is not right, while being pushed, steered and otherwise railroaded into believing that the only “solution” for my daughter is for her to transition. I do not believe this as of right now and it will take a lot of further convincing for me to see it any other way. I feel like it may be too late, but I will not give up on my child who is being overly influenced by the internet and all of it’s in your face blogs and websites showing that transitioning is the key to happily ever after. I could go on, but better for me to jump in to reading as much as I can here and elsewhere, now that I have found the hidden key so to say.
Thank you for your blog. I am a parent of a 20 year old young man who just announced to me he is transgender and wants to start HRT. I do not feel we as parents have to give in and allow our children to be injected with chemicals and alter the bodies they were born with. I’m disgusted to see how quickly HRT can be prescribe, as long as you have the MONEY these doctors will proceed. I do not care if I’m not “politically correct” but I’m not giving in and I don’t care how many people don’t like what I say. No one is going to love my son as much as his father and I do, he has not been on this planet long enough to experience life and could not possibly have all the information he needs to move forward with this life changing experience. My son was so quick to throw suicide statistics at me, have a tantrum, yell at me, and call me a BIGOT but all that shows me is how immature he really is. How about the statistics of the family members who are left to deal with this, how about the turmoil their little brothers and sisters will face and the trauma it will cause when they see their big brother is now a WOMAN!!! How about the fact that the parents are faced with saying goodbye to the child they gave birth to and now forced to look at some one who’s body and facial features have changed, meanwhile behind all that is the child they once had. Not to mention the therapy I will need to deal with this if he decides to move forward.
I would like him to see a therapist to discuss his depression issues, he agreed to that. I’m not exactly sure what kind of therapist to see, a psychologist or psychiatrist, any idea?
He says he has been this way since he was age 5, meanwhile I never saw him acting or wanting anything feminine, do kids this young know how to hide it? Peace & Blessing to all of you who are struggling with this, it’s been a rough week for our family, many tears and sleepless nights.
Hi Crystal, check out the site thirdwaytrans.com for more information about this situation with sons. This is written by a man who transitioned, then detransitioned and is now studying psychology. Also, 4thwave is the best source and a life saver for parents. My daughter is still stuck in this trans cult, but I think that if I had the information from 4thwave sooner, I may have been able to sway her differently. Be very careful of therapists, if your son chooses one on his own it will be dangerous. Good luck!
Thank you Dorothy, I will spend some time today looking at that web page. I will be calling a few therapist to briefly discuss their views before they see my son. He went to one therapist on his own (before I knew about his feelings) who worked for the clinic that promotes the transition, that is unacceptable to me. I need a therapist that is not affiliated and has other resources to treat my son. I hope it all works out for your daughter, sending peace and love your way during these difficult times.
Very sorry to hear of your struggle.
In our family’s experience, what ultimately helped (somewhat) was a therapist with lots of experience with teens – regardless of degree.
We found a LCSW therapist, part of a large practice, who had decades and decades of working with teens – and was able to ask my daughter, “Okay, you’re trans. What else? Depression, anxiety, etc.?” (All the things my kid didn’t want to talk about!)
The two disastrous therapists were 1) at school, a woman who seemed more interested in protecting the school while my daughter melted down, 2) a young woman my daughter saw privately – who was a solo practitioner, and just ended up going down my kids trans rabbit hole, agreeing with my kid what horrible parents she had.
One mom’s experience.
Onward!
Thank you for sharing your experience. Do you have any tips for how to find a therapist that will not encourage transition? We (parents of teenage girl) are in the Boston area. Thank you.
A Pullen: Sorry, I have no contacts in Boston.
What I’ve seen over the past couple of years:
1) When looking for a therapist – I wouldn’t say my goal is to prevent my kid’s transition.
That is potentially a red flag for the therapist that you’re a difficult parent, and you’ll judge therapeutic success with your kid based transition/non-transition. Realistically, therapists don’t offer guarantees.
I tell the therapists that I’m trans skeptical – and then go on and describe your kid’s symptoms that are unrelated to trans –
For example: I offer examples of my kid’s depression, anxiety, hours locked up in her bedroom, dramatically falling grades, sudden shifts in friend groups, loss of interest in her sport, my kid’s irrational fear of spending money, unusual outbursts of anger, inability to engage in the college search process, etc. etc.
You get the idea. Fill in with the details that are specific to your kid. If she’s a teenager, you’ll have plenty of examples, I’m sure.
2) Interview the therapist before committing to seeing them.
-What’s his/her training? Is his involved in ongoing research?
Has he written books, or chapters of books? What evidence-based modalities does he work in? (Is this a person oriented towards current research and evidence-based outcomes, or someone off in their own sandbox, making it up as they go along?)
-Does this person do one-on-one therapy, or family therapy? Ours did family therapy and was an excellent coach for me and my husband in handling the obstacle course of raising teens.
– I’ve personally become concerned about people in solo practice – those people can end up down their own personal rabbit hole. I much prefer a therapist with colleagues, staff meetings, etc., someone with his own professional resources.
– Show the therapists you’re interviewing the article posted elsewhere on this site by LCSW Lisa Marciano, a Philadelphia Jungian therapist.
Lisa article lays out two paths: treating gender dysphoria with an “identity model,” (basically, self-identified) or a “mental health model.” She non-judgmentally explains why you want the mental health model. Maybe Lisa knows someone in Boston…
– I show up with a list of questions. Take notes. I’m interviewing this person, I’m not in therapy myself.
3) I got therapist recommendations from friends. I’m usually wary of these, and always ask myself, How similar is this other kid’s situation to my kid’s?
4) While all this is going on – as though you don’t have enough to do! – my husband I made sure that NORMAL life continues – we told her she had to get a summer job, we bought her a car and made sure she learned how to drive, she had chores at home, paying her own tuition at college, making her responsible for as much as you can.
We always keep our eye on the larger picture – which here means teaching your kid how to be a grown-up, no matter how unlikely that prospect seems at the moment.
Much love to you.
Onward!
Hi Crystal. I’m the mother of a teenage girl who identified as trans and then desisted. I tried to find a therapist and it can be a bit of a minefield as the current climate is to reaffirm the trans identity. Mainstream ideology is that you must go along with your child’s gender dysphoria or you are a terrible parent. I never stopped telling my daughter she was a girl. Play for time. This is a brilliant website where you’ll find links to all sorts of helpful articles and support, many of which disprove the statistics your son is throwing at you. I know what you are feeling, I have been there and I am so sorry. I hope your child comes through it. Many do; there is hope.
Juliet, Thank you for your words of encouragement. What a sense of relief you must have since your daughter has worked this out.
I can’t tell you how relieved – and vindicated? – my wife and I are about finding your site (she found it). Our daughter is 20 now, but the whole trans thing was (and possibly still is, tho it seems we might be past the worst of it) a nightmare. We live in the Hudson Valley of NYS and have seen startling numbers of pre teen/teen girls suddenly come out as “trans”, all within a few years. Nobody else seemed to hear the alarm bells. Anyway, lots of reading to catch up on. Thanks so much.
To clt: I am new to blogs and cannot figure out how to reply directly to your comment regarding attorney’s or anyone who has legal knowledge, so I hope you get this. I do not have either experience but I wanted to put it out there that I am willing to sign any petition, send letters to my Senator, bring this issue to the attention of my Governor, who is Governor Christie (I’m in NJ). I am sending my son to one of the top colleges in NJ, I am disgusted that this college would promote him changing his gender. When I sent him to college I expect to have a SON graduate in 4 years not a daughter !!!!!!! I am appalled. I left a message for the nurse practitioner at the college asking for some general information. 3 days have passed and no return call.
Hi Crystal,
I’m sorry to say, at this moment we are all shouting into the wind. But I am never going to give up on my child! There was a survey for families of these kids who are claiming to be transgender and I am not sure it’s still active, but the doctor who was was working on it is in NY. You might consider taking a look. If nothing else, it will give you much insight. //4thwavenow.com/2016/07/02/rapid-onset-gender-dysphoria-new-study-recruiting-parents/
Tough as it is, I am sharing my families struggle with this with just about anyone who will listen. What I am finding out is that every time I do, someone says ‘oh my gosh, my neighbors granddaughter has just told this to her parents…out of the blue!’ ‘My hairdresser’s son’s girlfriend has a sister who is on testosterone…at 16!’ ‘My son has been online constantly, has a whole group of new friends there and now says he’s a girl’, and on and on it goes. Yes, it is a cult that has kidnapped our children. Parents and entire families are being cut off from the children’s lives unless they jump on board with both feet immediately. I am bracing for the Nat Geo series that will be hosted by Katie Couric in January on the Transgender Trend. I am praying that our stories will be told. I hope everyone on this blog will pressure them to hear our side, although I really don’t know how to do this…..anyone?
I am fighting back by calling out some of the ‘professionals’ in my local area who are defending this trend as ‘helping our children not suffer in the wrong body’. It is nothing more than malpractice on the therapists part, the Dr’s who are prescribing these hormones for an off label non FDA approved use, I might add, the plastic surgeons, and the drug companies who know this is happening. FOLLOW THE MONEY!
You should also view and share some of the young people’s blogs and videos who are speaking out as they have realized that trying to change ones gender does not solve all the possible issues and are de-transitioning with a lot of regret. Can you imagine, having your breasts lopped off and then realizing…OH GOD,….
One of the best articles mentioned on this blog is Lisa Marchiano, LCSW, a Jungian analyst. She blogs at theJungSoul.com.
I attended a PFLAGT meeting in my local area. The group has grown so much that they now need to have a gay and lesbian group and a separate T group. I would say there were about 30 people in the T group. Two late middle age transgender ‘women’ sort of led the meeting. One was recovering from her recent Orchiectomy. I knew no one and simply listened until a young teenager who was there with her family got up and spoke. She is transitioning FTM as a sophmore or junior in high school. The subject of hormones came up and her parents are not allowing them at this point, but she REALLY wants to take them. I then raised my hand and asked about the possibility of this affecting one’s fertility long term as I had read that starting hormones very young can lead to sterility. These lovely ‘women’ told me I had bad information and then went on to basically chastise this girls parents and tell them all of the positive things to be gained by letting her start hormone therapy. Yes, these late transitioned middle aged ‘women’ are telling us what is good for our kids! If I was not living this, I would never believe it could be possible.
Keep shouting Crystal….
Thanks for all you wrote here CLtDr. Littman’s survey is still active, so Crystal, please consider filling it out. Clt, do you have a link to the upcoming Katie Couric special?
Hi Clt, I am so sorry to hear about your struggles with your child. I did complete the survey. I am meeting with a therapist on Monday (who does not specialize in Gender Dysphoria) then she will meet with my son next Saturday. Meanwhile I am thinking about attending the appointment my son has at his college’s health clinic on Wednesday and speak to the nurse practitioner (who has not returned my call yet).
I want to know the following:
1. How many times will they meet with him before they prescribe HRT
2. Do they obtain the medical records from his primary care physician? and how will it affect him with his current medical issue.
3. Have they spoken or will they speak to my son about alcohol consumption, smoking etc? He will be turning 21 this year and what’s the first thing young adults do on their 21st birthday…ummmm have a drink?? I don’t think you can do that on HRT.
4. How do I know that my son is being upfront with the gender specialist, will he tell them about some major issues / trauma he has had during his life? If my son does have a disorder, then I can not be sure he is being upfront with the doctor, his “disorder” will not allow him to think clearly, how is he of sound mind to sign off on having a treatment which consist of injecting him with toxic chemicals?
Blessing to all of us who are struggling.
Exactly what happened to us. Away at college. Kept from us by her college. We had even seen posters at her college promoting transgenderism– as in, “Join the Trans Revolution!” I am not kidding but then again you know that as you are in the trenches. We discovered by pointedly asking if it was possible to get gender-changing hormones in the college clinic. Yes. How? All one has to do is present as confident. Really? And daughter has been diagnosed with a psychiatric disorder and has experienced periods of psychosis. She has cut off all contact with us and I don’t know if we will ever see her again. That is the modus operandi. If you question your kid about this unbelievable turn-of-events, they are instructed to cut-off contact with you. She did. We tried numerous reach-outs to no avail.
I’m really glad to find this site. I’ve copied a message that I sent to my good friends yesterday, because I was going crazy. Name have been changed but nothing else.
Maybe I just need to vent- and need to hear that I’m not crazy? I don’t know. I think (or thought) that it’s fairly obvious that I am not homophobic, transphobic, or in any way worried about people’s positions on the gender/orientation spectrum. Even in my kids. I seriously will love them no matter what, nor do I have a problem with the decisions they will make as adults. However, I feel like I’m caught in a transgender hell. My daughter Nicole is Nick now, and she’s a he. Whatever. She’s 12. (For less confusion for the rest of this post I will use she as a pronoun). I can believe that she may be trans. Or gay. Or not. I don’t care what she wears or how she wants to express herself. I affirm her identity and I’m doing my best to remember her new name and gender. I took her to a therapist to help her sort out her feelings and deal with any issues that come up. NOT to dissuade her identity or try to make her straight, just support. Instead what I have found is that the standard treatment for her is not to just support her, but to start puberty blockers now so she won’t develop and then add testosterone at 15 for a “more believable transition”. Anything other than this course of treatment is considered “anti-trans”. A position that my daughter firmly believes I have, and of course she won’t listen to me when I say I don’t think that. I was told that the puberty blockers were considered the neutral option because the effects are temporary. The long term effects are not known with certainty. But something that alters natural maturation is not temporary. It changes the whole development process.The saving grace has been that it takes a really long time to get into the doctor that does this treatment, which is only one here (that I know of). I started to try to get in before I learned how aggressive they were with young adolescents. This treatment was recommended by a person who has met my child once for 20 minutes or so. And after calling around for other options, I can only find extremes on either end. As in convince her to be a “girl” because of religion etc or start transitioning ASAP. The other option (according to the therapist) is to diagnose her with autism or bipolar disorder so she can’t get cleared for transition as easily. I really don’t think she’s autistic. Or bipolar. Just nerdy. She’s doing fine in school. And I don’t think it’s necessary to get her a label yet. All I want, ALL I WANT, is for her to make this call to permanently alter the trajectory of her entire life, as an informed adult, for herself. Am I wrong? She can’t get a nose ring yet. Even if I took her and said I wanted it. That’s illegal. I feel like the world has lost it’s mind. And I really thought nothing could surprise me as a parent. I’m calling the extreme increase in female to male transition the new anorexia. The hate for the adult female body being the target. I don’t know what it’s like to be transgender, or even gay, but I do know what it’s like to day after day, for decades, feel betrayed and misrepresented by my body. I know what body dysphoria feels like and it’s no joke. I know what it’s like to drink alcohol and take drugs (to self medicate and lose weight that I didn’t need to lose) as a maladaptive coping mechanism to escape my feelings of not being comfortable in my own skin. Thankfully I was able to get sober and have a good life, but I had to learn how to positively cope with my feelings and accept my body for this to happen. I also know what it’s like to have a daughter that just doesn’t want to hear my experience with problems because she thinks I can’t possibly know what it’s like. It’s crazy how quickly my options became turn her into a boy or label her crazy. Both of the choices are extreme! And then it’s topped off with would I rather have an alive son or a dead daughter. What the f%*<!? Aren't there any other ways? Anyway, I was frustrated, just looking for support for my kid, and it's just not out there yet. I'm confident that the best thing is to just wait. All my girls have one thing in common, and that's that none of us are good at conformity. How about the idea that they're just strong expansive minded non conforming females who don't want to be put into a gender box? Guess what, ftm is just a different box.
Nothing specific for Nat Geo Katie couric. I heard it advertised. ‘Everything you wanted to know about the transgender trend but were afraid to ask’ was the tag line. Just google it and you’ll see.
I’m so glad that I found this site. This is a message that I sent out to some of my close friends just yesterday looking for some support in my struggle.
Maybe I just need to vent- and need to hear that I’m not crazy? I don’t know. I think (or thought) that it’s fairly obvious that I am not homophobic, transphobic, or in any way worried about people’s positions on the gender/orientation spectrum. Even in my kids. I seriously will love them no matter what, nor do I have a problem with the decisions they will make as adults. However, I feel like I’m caught in a transgender hell. My daughter Nicole is Nick now, and she’s a he. Whatever. She’s 12. (For less confusion for the rest of this post I will use she as a pronoun). I can believe that she may be trans. Or gay. Or not. I don’t care what she wears or how she wants to express herself. I affirm her identity and I’m doing my best to remember her new name and gender. I took her to a therapist to help her sort out her feelings and deal with any issues that come up. NOT to dissuade her identity or try to make her straight, just support. Instead what I have found is that the standard treatment for her is not to just support her, but to start puberty blockers now so she won’t develop and then add testosterone at 15 for a “more believable transition”. Anything other than this course of treatment is considered “anti-trans”. A position that my daughter firmly believes I have, and of course she won’t listen to me when I say I don’t think that. I was told that the puberty blockers were considered the neutral option because the effects are temporary. The long term effects are not known with certainty. But something that alters natural maturation is not temporary. It changes the whole development process.The saving grace has been that it takes a really long time to get into the doctor that does this treatment, which is only one here (that I know of). I started to try to get in before I learned how aggressive they were with young adolescents. This treatment was recommended by a person who has met my child once for 20 minutes or so. And after calling around for other options, I can only find extremes on either end. As in convince her to be a “girl” because of religion etc or start transitioning ASAP. The other option (according to the therapist) is to diagnose her with autism or bipolar disorder so she can’t get cleared for transition as easily. I really don’t think she’s autistic. Or bipolar. Just nerdy. She’s doing fine in school. And I don’t think it’s necessary to get her a label yet. All I want, ALL I WANT, is for her to make this call to permanently alter the trajectory of her entire life, as an informed adult, for herself. Am I wrong? She can’t get a nose ring yet. Even if I took her and said I wanted it. That’s illegal. I feel like the world has lost it’s mind. And I really thought nothing could surprise me as a parent. I’m calling the extreme increase in female to male transition the new anorexia. The hate for the adult female body being the target. I don’t know what it’s like to be transgender, or even gay, but I do know what it’s like to day after day, for decades, feel betrayed and misrepresented by my body. I know what body dysphoria feels like and it’s no joke. I know what it’s like to drink alcohol and take drugs (to self medicate and lose weight I didn’t need to lose) as a maladaptive coping mechanism to escape my feelings of not being comfortable in my own skin. Thankfully I was able to get sober and have a good life, but I had to learn how to positively cope with my feelings and accept my body for this to happen. I also know what it’s like to have a daughter that just doesn’t want to hear my experience with problems because she thinks I can’t possibly know what it’s like. It’s crazy how quickly my options became turn her into a boy or label her crazy. Both of the choices are extreme! And then it’s topped off with would I rather have an alive son or a dead daughter. What the f*^k? Aren’t there any other ways? Anyway, I was frustrated, just looking for support for my kid, and it’s just not out there yet. I’m confident that the best thing is to just wait. All my girls have one thing in common, and that’s that none of us are good at conformity. How about the idea that they’re just a strong expansive minded non conforming females who don’t want to be put into a gender box? Guess what, ftm is just a different box.
The world HAS lost its mind.
You’re not crazy.
FTM: same old female self-loathing, shiny new endocrine/surgical package.
4thwave families ….we must stand up, speak out, take action, legal action against these ADULTS who are preying upon our children! The kids themselves cannot see what’s happening while they are inside this ‘movement’, which is why it’s completely accurate to define it as a cult. Remember Jim Jones? Thinking people committed mass suicide at one mans urging. PLEASE KEEP SHOUTING!!!
I really want to speak out publicly as myself but I’m not ready to expose my children to the public either. So I don’t know how or what I can do without outing them in the process. But I really do believe that this is overt child abuse. I’m very supportive of transgender rights for adults. One of my best friends is a trans woman and even she thinks it’s crazy that it’s happening to kids this young. Especially with how easy and fast getting the “treatment” is. I could understand if it was usually a very rare and desperate case for some parents to feel like the treatment was the last option, but it’s too common. And the pressure put on the parents makes it seem like they don’t love and accept their child unless they follow the protocol.
I feel exactly the same way. I would love to write about what’s going on with my daughter – but the situation with her is so fraught, it feels really dangerous.
This is why I laughed out loud the other day when I read a comment by another poster here, who signs him/herself as “Anonymous until this shit blows over…” THAT is genius, pure genius!
Same. My son my mamas boy my sweet child who adored me is gone. Will not answer a text. I’m dead to him. It’s killing me
People. We need legal advice. If we have no attorneys currently here with our same experience then we need to begin reaching out to family friends and acquaintances who can steer us in the right direction. This is child abuse and malpractice along with using our tax dollars inappropriately. Please consider ‘thinking outside the box’ on this. Our kids are worth it!!! This is why I have done the painful thing of sharing our story with whom ever. Let your ego go to save our kids. You will meet others and free them to speak out. We must fight fire with fire!!!
Yes, we need legal help. I tried everything. Daughter is gone-disappeared. Hidden by her college. She was over 18. I contacted attorneys and medical professionals in the city where she resides (away at college). They were very sorry. They had heard this all before. They could not take the case. Because she is over 18. Even though she had a verified mental illness, that might be malpractice to allow her the gender-bender hormone and perhaps surgery. But no. The lawyers said to me that in our country the laws allow you to self-destruct. We allow crazy people (not the best term) to captain their own ships. One attorney said, Mam, do you see those homeless and mentally ill people living under bridges? Do you think their families want them there?” I even contacted a large national conservative Christian law firm. I am not really in that demographic camp, but I thought if one organization would take it on it might be them. They were sympathetic. They said the federal laws make this all very difficult. There are privacy laws and there were the activists in the psychiatric community that changed a bit of coding a few years back.
I think the answer is to get all of our stories like this in the mainstream press. At least, all of us that have pretty similar stories: child was not at all gender dysphoric, child normal coming in to teens, adolescent may have decided that he or she was lesbian or gay, they get sucked down a dark hole in the internet and their identities change, and then they hate you. They are very affected by peers and social contagion factor.
If this is shown for what it really is- a cult, perhaps we can get some legal and medical changes to this system that seeks to re-define human beings.
I am so sorry. There is no other word for this than cult. Evil cult.
I think we need to begin with underage kids and their parents who are being encouraged by therapists, doctors and drug companies for not using full disclosure. Blockers then hormones will lead to sterility 100% of the time! Drs are prescribing these meds for an off label use w/o fda approval as far as I know. The side effects of T and mtf hormones even after puberty can have major side effects that are not being talked about. So….complain and shout to the Drs employer who prescribes, file a complaint to your local board of psychology against the therapists, attend your local PFLAGT meeting and ask the tough questions that these activists do NOT want to answer! Are we inviting trouble to our personal lives? The answer is yes but ask yourself what the alternative is. I am NOT giving up on my child.
I encourage you to put the college on notice that you are not on board (do they want to lose your tuition or have a spat that might cast them in a bad light in the local media and w/in academia?). I am now ready to go a bit militant and I think that’s our only option