Just when I thought it was safe to settle down and write a think-post centered around dry scientific research, the ever-vigilant deirdreofthegaians dug up a gem from the Peak Trans treasure mine that was far too valuable to pass up.
Update 1: GenderTrender picked up the story early this morning with more explicit detail and background on the purveyors of these latex kiddie phalluses--including the tidbit that the supplier for these devices is a Japanese sex toy company called Tomax. Haz-mat suit recommended. Where are the mainstream journalists on this story? WHERE ARE THEY?
Update 2: I tweeted Ginger Gorman, the reporter on the Aussie news story, asking whether she found anything odd about marketing phalluses to 4-year-olds. Her reply? “Everyone is entitled to their views. You don’t agree, and that’s your prerogative.”
The story, reported by an online Aussie newspaper, is the tale of Ellie and her 11-year-old “son” Jake, who
every day runs to the letterbox to check if the postman has been. For four weeks he’s been waiting for a parcel that seems as if it will never come.
What’s Jake so eagerly awaiting? Why, it’s an overseas delivery from a San Francisco outfit called TranZwear, which bills itself as a “one-stop shop for all things FTM”–specifically “packers” and “stand to pee” (STP) prostheses.TranZwear has evidently discovered there is a niche market for penis-gear targeted at trans boys–a not-surprising business plan, given the recent steady increase in girls who wish to be boys.
Despite its expanded line of business, the welcome page for the TranZWear site makes it very, very clear that no one under the age of 18 should view the site, or allow anyone else under that age to take a peek. Just by visiting TranZWear, you pledge that
You will not allow anyone under the legal age of 18 to have any access to materials contained within.
So Jake is very excited about the package that is on its way from TranZWear, but if Jake and Mum followed the rules, Jake never actually looked at pictures of the two items that will be in the box: a stand-to-pee penile prosthesis and
a soft, washable “packer,” that gets sewn into underwear to create the outward appearance of male genitalia.
“It’s desperately important for him in order to feel comfortable and pass [as a boy] all the time,” Ellie says.
Being slightly over 18 myself, I clicked over to see exactly what TranZwear has on offer. It turns out that parents of trans boys have several pint-sized options to choose from: a “starter kit”:
Readers over 18 ONLY, you can click the above link to get a look at the “kid-sized STP,” (fits conveniently in the palm of your hand), the teen-sized “mini-Gecko,” and the “Masho STP.” I couldn’t screenshot the devices here, of course, because this is a family website, and these images are suitable for viewing only by people over 18 years and are “of an adult nature.”
Ok, so two items in Jake’s package. First, Jake needs an “STP” because
When Jake goes into a stall to urinate in the boys’ toilets at school, Ellie explains that he feels “very self conscious about the fact that he always has to sit down. It was distressing him to point where he wasn’t going to the toilet at school,” she says.
Which particular device will Jake need for standing to pee? TranZwear’s “Kids-sized STP” for ages 5-12 is just the ticket–on sale tonight for only $58.00, and even available in both circumcised and uncircumcised models. (Again, readers over the age of 18 only!!! can click over to see the kid-sized STP.)
But the STP only works for the urinal problem so important to Jake’s mum–um, Jake.
Ellie points to the difficulty of female to male transgender children participating in sports like ballet, gym and swimming without a packer in their underwear. “There’s a serious issue behind all of this. It prevents trans kids from participating in a lot of sport,” she says. This issue does have a lighthearted side, though. Reflecting on her search to find her son appropriate products, Ellie describes her situation as “tragicomic.”
“I’m an adult, married heterosexual woman who doesn’t have a child with a penis,” she says, “I don’t really know what children’s penises look like and yet I’ve had really explicit conversations with strangers about children’s penises.”
Ok, then. “Explicit conversations with strangers” about children’s genitals are just a hum-drum part of parenting a gender nonconforming child in progressive 2015.
TranZwear has just the solution for the sporty trans boy in its “mini-Gecko”–marked down 40% to be a steal at $23.95. Jake–oops, I mean Jake’s mum, who is presumably over 18–can even pick between soft and hard models. Both have the “vein look” along the shaft and a “hardier ball pack.” (Um–don’t ask?) Image available for adults only!! here.
But…what about younger, or more petite trans boys? When it comes time for your little trans boy to join the soccer team or Little League softball, the mini-Gecko might not be the right fit.
TranZwear has thought of that, with a line of packers for kids ages 4 and up, only $25.95 ($20 discount!). The “Newt” Packer (rather aptly named, if you examine the adults only!! picture) will be just right for your 1st-4th grader, while the “Teeny Bopper” should suit your tween sportsman to a “T.”
Lest anyone reading the Aussie news story about Jake and his mum find any of this–oh, I don’t know, a bit uncomfortable to contemplate–we are reassured by the company’s owner, Den Kirkwood-Tucker, that TranZwear has only the most wholesome interests of its trans boy customers in mind:
[TranZwear] works carefully with each family to take into account the child’s “age and where they are in their transition.”
Mr Kirkwood-Tucker specialises in custom orders and has consistently refused “offers to sell my designs and products to the adult industry.”“These products are key for trans kids and adults to help them move forward in their gender transition and are not sex related items.”
Good to know.
Kirkwood-Tucker isn’t the only entrepreneur getting in on the booming business of transition wear for kids. The article goes on to feature a seamstress who specializes in discrete, concealing underwear for trans girls.
Some transgender girls prefer clothing that disguises their genitalia. Seamstress Chris McKelvey, owns an Etsy store called LeoLines. She started making items for transgender girls four years ago when a mother asked if it was possible to modify a bathing suit for her male to female daughter.
Since then Ms McKelvey has made more than 1000 pieces of clothing for transgender children, including underpants and various types of active wear.
I’ll leave you to do your own exploration of these online stores. There’s much more to be found on the TranZwear site, but bear in mind, shoppers: these preschool penises are to be seen by over 18 ONLY.
You are voluntarily continuing to view this site and will be exposed to material that are medically transitional items and of an adult nature. If you are not at least 18, please close this page.
Reblogged this on Stop Trans Chauvinism and commented:
everything is awful.
If anyone wants to you can see full on creepy screenshots they can on Gender Trender and thus not actually go on the icky store site. Just saying.
*gigantic sigh* This has to be the beginning of the end of this lunacy. 😖
The million dollar question is: Will the mainstream media pick it up, or give a crap? The original article from Australia that mentioned this “store” sure as hell didn’t bother to point out how disturbing this is. They were just celebrating the mom and kid, as usual, doing what needed to be done. If that journalist didn’t see anything wrong with this, will any of them? I can’t get over the fact that the site itself warns it’s for people over 18, but they’re marketing this garbage to kindergarteners. Beyond belief.
You’re right. They might just keep up the happy talk. The way I pictured this getting exposed, and this could just be a wild fantasy, is an investigative reporter gets interested in it and she or he in addition to reading all the stuff people like you and I have read talks to someone who is I don’t know like a professor or a doctor and will go on the record saying this is very abnormal in terms of how medicine is usually practiced. And etc. Someone the journalist feels comfortable leaning on, laying out all the problematic features. So yeah it won’t be just one creepy product. If I’m even write about this.
Oh, US right-wing media will get this story and go pit bull on. This is so wrong and disturbing. If liberals abdicate their moral authority on stopping this silliness, it’s going to be ugly.
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On a practical front….I wonder if this company is going to send along an antibiotic kit and the diaper cream these girls will need to treat their UTIs and urine burned vaginas. I have to wonder about the social stigma attached to smelling like urine at school? Are we to believe these disgusting “things” will be washed out in the bathroom sink after each use? I can’t imagine that thing chafing such sensitive tissues and altering the normal healthy flora in the vagina by restricting airflow and holding on to urine residue.
Good point! And, I would imagine that getting caught washing the device at school would be more socially awkward than just using the stall every time.
These parents aren’t helping their kids be themselves, they are getting their kids trapped in a web of deception. I fear that these children will have a difficult time untangling themselves if they change their minds.
“…I fear these kids will have a difficult time untangling themselves if they change their minds.” Bingo, bingo, bingo. The point no one ever makes. A kid spends their childhood (from age 4 if they’re getting their phalluses from TranZwear) “packing” and pretending to be the opposite sex. All the adults are nodding their approval. TV, newspapers, and kids’ books are full of celebration. And at 12, when they’re offered the option to go off puberty blockers? They’re going to do that? And who tells these poor kids that they will face a lifetime of injections, painful surgeries, and health problems stemming from their “treatments”? And not a single one of these kids will have any concept what it means to give up their fertility–for life.
I’m currently a transmale teen and the fact that somebody wrote and article just to trash transgender children disgusts me. If somebody has an issue with transgender children then keep it to yourself, but it’s our choice to switch if we want to switch, and of course we know the dangers and what will happen after surgeries and treatments. @4thwavenow you bring up this point- teenagers are given fair and numerous warnings of what will happen and what will proceed after treatments. Again, I tell anyone that thinks this is “insanity” “unhealthy” and “bizarre”, welcome to the 21st century, if you have a problem your in for a ride because we’re just getting started.
@limbo me too! I was looking for a packer for myself and this came up. Sorry we both had to see this.
I am seldom rendered speechless, but after trying several times to write replies that cover the full scope of my disgust, I give up.
What the…The world is seriously way weirder than I ever imagined.
This is uber-peak trans. I am convinced most humans would be appalled by this. Share it widely and maybe some journalist will actually take a critical look. Maybe.
I shared it on Facebook and Twitter. I’m bracing myself on Facebook since I use my real name there. *sigh*
You know, when I found out what was going on with my kid I approached this with a very open mind. Yes, I had a few preconceived ideas because this is being talked about a lot lately. I spent months reading anything I could get my hands on, including research studies. And I mean everything from all sides of this. I also wrote to probably 20 people with all sorts of expertise (some who are transexuals themselves as well). I went to “the” most highly recommended gender treatment therapist in the area. I live in NY and people as far as California were recommending this person to me. I’ve seen her quoted in foreign publications as well. I even read her book too. (Sadly it seems she is actually the only person near me who deals with this.) I went to her, and long story short, that was not a good experience. I could write volumes on that alone.
I have come to very different conclusions than many around me. Except, most people don’t bother to look up this information. Which is fine, if it does not affect them, they are content to parrot what they hear on the news. I admit I had done so myself for years. Those who object are mostly conservatives and religious folks, who object to this for very different reasons. And not reasons I can get on board with quite frankly. I do not want to align myself with them for this reason which really puts me in a very small and lonely group of people questioning this.
I have already said this probably 100 times, but being that I am generally a pretty open minded and accepting person (accepting of differences, etc.) it’s been a real struggle in my mind to have come to the conclusions that I have come to. I admit I’m even starting to feel angry towards transgendered persons. And that really is very ill placed anger. I do not blame them. They are being duped. How it got to this place, I would love to know. I do think many of these gender therapists and doctors go into this wanting to help people and they have good intentions. They are mostly looking at the social and ideological aspect of this. It seems, even despite what I’ve read, and now believe whole heartedly, that sure people should get to express themselves anyway that seems right to them. In a perfect world, it would be that way always. But the issue is, how did we go from that idea to drugging children, chopping off body parts, and slapping on fake penises on kids? These are not innocuous “treatments”.
I have a very good relationship with my kid. Thank goodness for that. Last night I flat out told him exactly how I feel about this. I said point blank you cannot change your sex. I said if you do these recommended “treatments” you will only be a medicated mutilated version of what you started off as. I said now they even push these things on children when it is well known that many children do not grow up to have any issues with their gender. I also said, I do not deny you have some confusing feelings. I said I wish there were other treatments if need be. At the moment I don’t believe he needs to do anything at all. But I’m bracing myself for the possibility there will be issues down the road.
He asked me why I’m so upset about this. I said I really believe people are getting this wrong, and I feel the strong need to try to get you and other people to listen to me about this. But then who am I to question all of these experts? He said he agrees with me and that I very likely prevented him from making a very huge mistake. I was kinda floored by that, and I hope he does think more than twice about this. He said what do you want me to do. I said it is your life and someday this will be your decision alone to make. Just know most of these therapists and doctors will not tell you the entire truth. I said I just envision you in therapy years from now with the therapist saying your mother was a controlling jerk and told you a bunch of lies. Yeah, well I guess that is the chance I have to take. I said do not believe what everyone tells you, look for the information. All of it. Consider the real consequences and know that most of these people will not tell you those parts.
I’d like to say I felt better after that conversation. It’s extremely uncomfortable to have come to a conclusion that not many others around me have come to. But why wouldn’t I be honest with my kid about that? And what parent doesn’t want to protect their kid from being hurt? I did emphasize that I will support him no matter what and that whatever he does in the future, I’ll still like him and love him. And that won’t take any sort of effort on my part because he truly is a very amazing and smart person. He just happens to have some unusual thinking for some reason.
I can’t change other people’s minds so easily. I sure wish I could, but I can’t think of how. When I start talking about this with those who have done no research, I only come out sounding kinda crazy. I know that. I would think I were crazy if I was on the other side of that conversation. The few I’ve talked about it with only seem to be politely humoring me and forgive how insane I sound because they know me as being a person who thinks things through. I have to fight an ideology that even I hold somewhat dear (although less so now that I understand the situation), and I can’t get the right people’s attention because it involves so much explanation that they won’t bother unless this ever affects them personally. People are only seeing, oh a boy who wants to wear a dress what is the big deal? Or a girl who doesn’t want to wear a dress. Although I need to point out that this often does not manifest itself in this way. My son, for example, has no desire to wear a dress. It’s not about that at all. They don’t see oh a boy who will be told his confusing thoughts require drugs that can have very negative side affects including cancer, and chopping off his body parts (and pay no mind to the fact he won’t pass as a female, but only insensitive jerks would point that out). And at the risk of sharing a little bit too much information, he doesn’t even want to present himself outwardly as a girl. (I could write volumes about that part too.)
Even when this affects someone personally, I get the impression they couldn’t have really done their homework on this because they might not be so quick to make such drastic decisions for their children. Then again, we are taught to trust doctors and therapists. They are there to help right? They are the “experts” right? Except the fact of the matter is they can’t even tell you what the outcome of these treatments are. That information is just not there (and the information that is is ignored), and I’m afraid honest information won’t be there for a very long time, if ever.
So yeah, that is where I’m at. At least I have a handful of people on the Internet willing to speak up and listen and seek the truth. I thank all of you for that.
PS….I have made no effort to make this a perfectly organized post because at this point I just want to get this out there.
I think, I hope, so many of us look back on our own childhoods with nostalgia as a time of freedom, of innocence, and of wonder as we grew to make sense of the world around us. Where has that all gone for these children? I remember the rule of ”never accept sweets from strangers”; I thought it was because some people put poison in the sweets a bit like the poisoned apple in the fairy stories. Anything sexual wasn’t even within my comprehension.
When did it suddenly become OK to market dildos to 4 year old’s? What has happened in society that we expose children as young as 4 to this?
Prosthetic willies, not dildos. The product states they are NOT designed for sexual use…just allowing young girls to feel like boys if their parents are open to allowing a child to make a firm choice on gender while still developing the rest of their identity.
Allowing a young child to make a “firm choice” on gender such that they are encouraged to deny objective biological reality is not good parenting in my book. Speaking as a parent. And I thought the trend nowadays was to say “genitals don’t matter” (a la “a penis can be female”) so why does a little girl need a piece of latex in her pants? And yeah, they say it’s not for sexual use, but if you explore the website, they are made by a sex toy manufacturer. And they are miniaturized replicas of adult penises. And why are adults encouraging kids to obsess over their genitalia anyway? Something is very wrong here.
I tweeted Ginger Gorman, the reporter on the Aussie news story, asking whether she found anything odd about a company marketing phalluses to 4-year-olds. Her reply? “Everyone is entitled to their views. You don’t agree & that’s your prerogative.” Guess that’s it, then. Added our Twitter convo as an update at the top of this post.
I’ve yet to hear of some pedo atrocity specifically against little girls to take off in the media and become a public cause. This dildo crap specifically victimizes little girls. All the child rape and other cases which have received widespread media attention and public outcry so far have been only those with boys/men as the victims. I’ll believe the media and public would take a stand against the abuse of girls when I see it.
I tweeted her, too. She blocked me.
I have since been blocked as well.
Unless my clocking radar is misaligned, Ms. Gorman appears to be an MTF, and, if the photos I found on Google image search are any indication, appears to be in a relationship with an FTM.
She doesn’t have a problem with this because it suits her agenda.
Actually, I guess I was mistaken, but I’m curious if her partner might indeed be trans.
No, she talks about being pregnant and having post-partum depression. I don’t know what her issue is, but it isn’t that she is M2T
Well, the hell with her; she isn’t the only journalist on earth. Maybe it will yet be taken up by others.
Also, I guess I should call the thing a packer, not a a dildo. It’s still extremely abusive to market the thing to little girls. Also, it’s misleading. It’s called STP, meaning stand to pee, which implies that you can’t stand to pee without making a mess unless you have a phallus or phallus-like device, which is just another mind fuck. Actually, any female can stand to pee and not make a mess using only her own native female equipment. You just have to learn the proper technique of how to do it. This goes for little girls too, who could as easily be taught to pee standing as boys are. Also, females can outdistance males.
Well, the hell with her; she isn’t the only journalist on earth. Maybe some journalist or media will take it up yet. Though I’ve yet to see it.
Also, I guess I should call the thing a packer, not a dildo, but regardless of what it’s called it is abusive to market it to little girls, for all the reasons touched on in this discussion. It is also misleading. STP, meaning stand to pee, implies that in order to be able to stand to pee (without making a mess), you have to have a phallus or phallus like device, which just isn’t true. Any female can do it with their own native female equipment. You just have to know the proper (easy) technique. Females can also outdistance males at it.
http://home.earthlink.net/~instructions/sp.htm
Shocking that gender non confirming children are abused but the abuse is ignored. The fact such products are produced and marketed of itself constitutes a form of child abuse and illegal.
My son, then aged 16 and with my permission, purchased a “stand to pee” device from Peecock Products because, guess what, he wanted to be able to go to the toilet and pee.
Only narrow minded bigoted transphobic people would see STPs and packers as anything to do with sexual gratification.
People who continue to draw a connection between urination and sex make me sick and again I’m in fear for my son when he is in public.
This comment will no doubt draw the ire and negativity that I have come to expect from those who have never walked in my shoes. All I ask is that people educate themselves rather than continue to rehash worn, outdated and bigoted opinions.
I don’t doubt you’ve had a difficult road to travel as a parent. And I don’t personally see these “packers” and STPs as about the sexual gratification of the child. I see it as a denial of reality. You undoubtedly did what you thought best for your child by buying those devices. But rather than throw around insults like “bigot,” “transphobe,” “narrow-minded,” I’d invite you to read more of my blog, and particularly the comments from parents. My regular readers and I have actually spent a long time studying this issue, and we have come to a different conclusion than you have. A sizeable number of us are parents ourselves, so we are well aware of the challenges. You’re right–we haven’t walked in your shoes, but we’ve walked in our own. And we aren’t stupid thoughtless people.
I don’t usually publish comments like yours, because the purpose of this blog is provide an alternative to the views you hold (which are what you’ll find all over the Internet). But you’re a parent, and I’m sure you struggle to do what you think will be best for your kid, as we all have. I disagree that you have a “son,” because I don’t believe you can change sex. But I respect you as a parent. It’s tough, and you do have that in common with us. Oh, and the suffix “phobic” means “fear.” I’m not afraid of people who identify as trans. I think they deserve civil rights protections and fair treatment. But my skeptical viewpoint on this is not born of fear. It’s born of educating myself, and realizing I just don’t buy what the gender docs and trans activists are selling.
Good for you 4thWaveNow. I stumbled on this blog by mistake, but I think your viewpoints are extremely important and you’re doing the right thing by speaking out on this issue.
The only “fear” I have regarding transgenderism is the fear I have that my own child may some day make the decision to mutilate her body or put dangerous drugs into her system because medical professionals lead her to believe it will cure her of feeling like she “just isn’t female.” I do not fear transgender people — only the potential harm and constant, lifelong medical upkeep the drugs and surgeries hold for my child. Not to mention the tragedy and furthered psychological problems if some day she comes to regret making permanent, major, medically unnecessary changes to her body. That is my fear as parent, for my child whom I love unconditionally. It has nothing to do with transphobia.
ftmskeptic, you are right. Also, this lie little girls keep hearing–that if you aren’t a prom queen/cheerleader, then you must be a dude–has got to stop. Little girls need to know there’s a million ways to be a woman in our society and they are all awesome. We cannot and should not be defined by liking pink, sparkles, make-up, and the other superficial crap we get fed.
“This comment will no doubt draw the ire and negativity that I have come to expect from those who have never walked in my shoes.”
It appears that you are the one who is angry and vitriolic and doing all the name-calling. I believe that’s called “projection.” I’m sorry that your parenting path has been difficult. I’m also sorry that you can’t accept that other people often have other opinions and choose other paths which are also difficult — especially when you are calling them bigots and transphobes.
Parents have the weighty responsibility of looking at all the available evidence and then making decisions for their kids, based on their analysis of the evidence. Some of us have done that and come to different conclusions than you did. Some of us are skeptical regarding the supposed infallibility of “expert advice.” A lot of us have good reasons for caution, based on our prior interactions with the med/psych/pharma world, on our observations of past history regarding favored treatments that turned out to be ineffective and detrimental, and on our own knowledge of our kids’ prior health/psych histories.
Wariness and caution do not make us “narrow-minded bigoted transphobic people.” We’re merely people who have looked at the evidence, weighed the pros and cons, and decided on a course of action accordingly.
Parents get to differ on all kinds of parenting issues, including this one. Name-calling helps no one. I wouldn’t do that to you, despite the fact that we have different opinions about the best ways to help our kids.
I wish you and your child well.
Your son was also old enough to drive a car, get a job, move out, etc. Consider the fact that these are for children as young as three or four and the items o in question look like small adult male genitalia. Consider ANYONE noticing your four year olds bulge and what your response SHOULD be. Male children do not have discernable bulges because they have sexually immature genitalia. Now consider the implications of putting a replica of sexually mature male genitalia over your four year old’s vagina. Do you get it yet? I think people really do understand where you are coming from, but your child is 16, almost an adult. Nobody wants to see anyone in more pain but these are not healthy solutions. Please do make sure you read about the risks for females injecting testosterone, dirt has recently posted some excellent information on her blog. Acceptance and tolerance are virtues but you really have to know what you are signing her up for. I too wish you and your child well.
This: ” Male children do not have discernable bulges because they have sexually immature genitalia. Now consider the implications of putting a replica of sexually mature male genitalia over your four year old’s vagina. “
Fair enough Curious. Call me a transphobic bigoted asshole because I don’t want people turning my kid into a medicated mutilated freak show. That is precisely how I see this “treatment”.
I am pretty certain most here don’t think the fake penis attachment is about sexual gratification, but hey it got people to listen and consider what we have to say.
We aren’t allowed to ask questions. Not even completely innocuous questions. If we do, we don’t support the “community”. Why have you come here to defend your choice if you feel comfortable with it? I am sure you have thought this through and did what you felt you had to do, and I respect you for that. This is what we feel we have to do. You want to protect your child and support him. We want the same thing. But we want something else than what is currently offered. I hardly think that makes us lousy people who don’t care.
I would never mistreat you nor any transgendered person poorly over this. You have it all wrong if you think that this is what that is all about. At the end of the day we want to protect our loved ones. We just have not come to the same conclusions about this. Since when does questioning things make a person a jerk? Yes, I get it, the questions are not comfortable. Nothing about this has been comfortable. If I would have imagined in 100,000 years what sorts of things I might be faced with in my life, this would not occur to me in all that time.
You have the transgendered community backing you up 100% for your choice to accept their recommendations. We have no other options and pretty much zero support. When I rejected putting my kid on blockers at the suggestion of a therapist who had not even met my kid and that I had only spoken to for less than an hour, she basically told me I was a bad parent. Wow. Since when is it bad parenting to want to consider the options and the pros and cons? I have no respect for that brand of bullying and manipulation of a professional who has ZERO idea of how this really feels as a parent. It’s one thing to tell a bunch of other people what to do with their kids. It’s another thing to do that to your own kid.
Yes. You have perfectly encapsulated exactly why I started and now maintain this blog.
I also am a mother who has taken a different path from you. Based on my experiences, I have a healthy skepticism of the medical field. I tend to research things to the nines and have come to my own conclusions about how best to proceed with my daughter.
I don’t see the STP or packer as a sex toy either, but will avoid purchasing it for my daughter. That doesn’t make me narrow-minded, bigoted, or transphobic.
I do not wish you or your child any harm, and, on the contrary, sincerely wish you both the best.
You’re talking about a sixteen-year-old, though. Not a little kid.
I’m not an expert on trans kids or trans issues in general. I’ve read a few articles and watched a few documentaries. But I do have a background in education and child psychology. I have been trained to look for the warning signs of abuse, and yes, this is something that would make me call protective services.
Check out this list of Behaviors To Watch Out for. Scroll down to the end where it says “Sexual conversation or behavior”:
http://www.stopitnow.org/ohc-content/behaviors-to-watch-out-for-when-adults-are-with-children
[quote]Frequently points out sexual images or tells dirty or suggestive jokes with children present?
Exposes a child to adult sexual interactions or images without apparent concern?
Is overly interested in the sexuality of a particular child or teen (e.g., talks repeatedly about the child’s developing body or interferes with normal teen dating)?[/quote]
Showing that catalog to a kid– or buying merchandise from it and giving it to a child– would fall into this category, don’t you think? Not to mention the adult’s preoccupation with the child’s genitalia. Why are these parents so eager to give their kid a fake penis?
OK, I get it that some kids suffer from gender dysphoria, and maybe the parents think this will help. Or maybe they DON’T think it will help, but Dr. Goodbody says this is what you’re supposed to do with these kinds of kids, so the parents go with what the expert says instead of following their own instincts. Or else the manufacturer made up the whole story about this particular transkid to cover the fact that they’re selling these things to pedophiles. (How many MTF transkids are there in this world compared to the number of pedophiles?)
I believe their larger market will be child porn/pedophiles.
🙁
Am I living in a horror movie??
“Dystopia” is the word that usually comes to mind for me.
Well I don’t know if you are, but I am.
WTF are they doing making replicas of adult penises?!!!!!!!! I don’t have kids but aren’t prepubescent boys penises different from adult ones? Also I didn’t realize these were being made by a dildo manufacturer. This is too throw up making. You know that new movie Spotlight, about the reporters in Boston on the pedophile priest scandal? Get those reporters on this. 😡
PS When I first dictated this I kept saying “male penises”. WTF is happening to me?! 😱
PPS Yes, we should call them ‘packers’. But we can say ‘dildo-based packers’.
PPPS Little girls and fake penises. What would Freud say?! 😒
Ginger Gorman has a history of endlessly positive trans stories, but she dropped the ball badly in 2010, and her justification for her bad reporting is kinda revolting
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-07-10/gorman-second-thoughts/4809582
Read that story. Wow. Saying in effect ‘we can’t vet anyone we tell about on our radio show’. But what’s really amazing is after that experience, where she interviewed a gay couple who’d had a child via surrogacy in Russia, which turned out to be a big lie. They had bought a baby and were pedophiles who had been abusing him since he was a tiny baby. Which is what makes the current story so weird. Is she just like the most naïve person who ever lived? Australian news’s version of Candide? The pedophile vibe is inherent in these weird and weirdly detailed ‘packers’. But she just didn’t bother to think about that. That would be bad in any reporter. But in one who already was burned by pervs? Wow. Do any of the big Aussie newspapers have a media columnist? Because this is a story: Daft Pedophile-Dupe Reporter At It Again.
Reddit thread about this post and on the topic of this journalist:
https://www.reddit.com/r/GenderCritical/comments/3mjplg/san_francisco_company_selling_packers_for_trans/
So when will Peak trans hit society. If this doesn’t hit society with Peak Trans, then I don’t know what else will it take to give society the Peak trans moment.
Hello, I earlier got suspicious of who created these and found out they were indeed made by a sex toy company, as you have noted. I want to say that the retailer I found – a sex toy shop – also sold their soft “packer”, shown with a harness. Which means this quote is a lie:
” Mr Kirkwood-Tucker specialises in custom orders and has consistently refused “offers to sell my designs and products to the adult industry.”“These products are key for trans kids and adults to help them move forward in their gender transition and are not sex related items.” ”
Tomax also creates and sells toys that looks like child vaginas for men to penetrate. So wholesome.
This can all be easily found by googling them. I’m surprised the journalist doesn’t see anything skeevy about all this. Or perhaps I shouldn’t be surprised 🙁
Anyway, all of this is just for adults, isn’t. The poor kids are just there for them to project shit on, and literally put dildos on.
How do you teach a little kid about sex after doing this to them? How do you teach them about their own genitals? “You know that penis of yours, it isn’t actually like other boys penises”. How would it work?
Yep, you’d think that would reinforce the dysphasia rather than alleviate it.
Oceans, I wholeheartedly agree with your reply. However the gremlins have been at work, I think you meant ‘dysphoria’ and not ‘dysphasia’. Dysphasia is a collection of impairments of language that people who’ve had strokes or brain injuries get. People like me.
And yes, being told from toddlerhood that there’s something wrong with your parts ‘down there’ is hard going to make you happy. 😡 Why not just tell the kid every day that she’s fat and stupid. It’s not like that would do any long-term harm. Pardon my extreme sarcasm.
Your actually right. In 1939, a researcher did a psychological experiment on a group of children and stuttering. Some children, that had nothing wrong with their speech, were told by the adults that there was something wrong with them, and they were abnormal. http://www-psych.stanford.edu/~bigopp/stutter2.html
They damaged the children so badly, many of them never recovered as adults.
Petuniacat, I know the difference. ipad was being wonky. Sorry.
I often come and look at this website. I come to see alternative views on trans kids. Sometimes I learn things I didn’t know. Sometimes I find things that affirm my opinions and sometimes I don’t.
As you might guess, I’m the parent of child who was assigned female at birth but has insisted for a couple of years now that they are male. Not that they want to be, that they are. I’ve chosen to deal with this differently than the author of this blog, but that’s not why I’m writing.
Den Kirkwood-Tucker was an absolute blessing to us at a time of great difficulty in our lives. He was professional, polite and respectful. His products for young people are *not* sex toys: they are designed to help with urination and gender dysphoria. Whether or not you think this is valid, this is the intention. Needless to say, he’s not a paedophile. However, this kind, gentle person is now receiving death threats, directly because of this post. He has a small business, his entire source of income, that is also directly threatened by those spreading the rumour that he is selling ‘sex toys for babies’.
I hope we can agree that gender and sexuality are not the same, particularly in those who are preadolescent. You might not agree with the products that Mr Kirkwood-Tucker is selling, but it is a legal, legitimate business. He might use a sex toy company for silicone moulds and production but this does not mean his children’s packers are sex products. Nestle owns Body Shop – do you think about that when buying infant formula and chocolate?
Everyone here is concerned about the welfare of children. Please stop hounding another blameless individual – Den Kirkwood-Tucker. He has done nothing to deserve harassment and hate.
If anyone reading my blog thinks it’s acceptable to issue death threats to ANYONE I consider that abhorrent and utterly appalling. Everyone reading this should hear that LOUD AND CLEAR. Having said that, I think bringing this practice, and the products sold, to light is valuable. Obviously, it has stirred strong feelings. As I said to another parent who commented here last night, I have no doubt that you and others believe they are doing the right thing for their children by facilitating their “transition.” Even some of the most transition-critical parents who participate here may have done that in some respects. But having a discussion about the ethics and the reasoning behind providing phallus-like devices to little children (and “4 and up” is little) is very much needed. Many of us here think “transition,” if it is going to take place, should be an adult decision, taken by someone over the age of medical majority. If an adult wants to purchase prosthetics like this, that’s their prerogative. But as you are seeing, many of us find this a “bridge too far.” Look, I understand why some parents would choose to do this. But I don’t like it, and discussing it is not wrong. Especially since no other journalists seem to want to touch the topic with a ten-foot-pole.
The body shop? The body shop sells scented soaps. What did you think it was?
I’m sorry your initial exposure to these ‘packer’ products didn’t cause you to see how much there is wrong with this. It’s not just that they look like dildos. That’s just the most shocking feature.
So Nestlé owns a cosmetics business, all right (The Body Shop is actually partly owned by L’Oréal, mind you). That sounds like pretty much any other conglomerate. When exactly was the last time a single company was selling vibrators, penis pumps and all other kinds of sex toys alongside products marketed towards children, literally side by side?
Somehow oversized pairs of testicles and equally oversized penises (boys don’t look like that. Source: me quite a few years ago) stop being sexual in nature as long as you strap them on to a girl?
“The Newt has the “pinky” finger size and length, and due to short shaft, doesn’t have any “hang”, but is semi erect similar to a young bio boy. Will lay nicely in packing underwear.”
“New and Improved Mini Gecko -Budget priced for every packer locker! It is slightly smaller than the Gecko, but with a hardier ball pack and connection to the shaft than the old design. It also now has the vein look along the shaft.”
Excuse me while I go vomit.
Thank you for this disgusting but important information. “Hardier ball pack”, good night!
I don’t believe in the death threats. As in I don’t believe she’s actually getting death threats. Calling her a real piece of shit baby raper might be rude but it’s not a death threat. Everybody who gets challenged immediately claims to receive death threats.
I am a little surprised at your support of such a product. When anyone markets a product so a little child has a “noticeable bulge” in their pants, it’s going to hit EVERY pedophile marker. Little boys don’t have noticeable bulges because their genitalia hasn’t gone through puberty. Those products don’t even resemble prepubescent male genitalia. And WHO is even checking little children’s crotches for bulges anyway??
When I was seven I desperately wanted to be a boy. I hated being a girl. Every night I prayed to God that I wake up as a boy. In retrospect, I’m so glad this trans madness didn’t exist back then. I truly feel for the kids and their parents, but businesses and the medical industry perpetuating the pain and discomfort for commercial gain is so disgusting. And doing so heedless of any potential long term effects is irresponsible. Once upon a time, Thalidomide was considered an effective medication.
I wish every parent of a “trans kid” could read your comment. You hit so many points: the weird obsession with children’s genitalia; the rather common experience of so many “gender nonconforming” girls who once wished they were boys; the blessing that we could grow up and be LEFT ALONE in the 60s-70s; the money-making aspect of this whole mess; the unknown health effects that might show up decades later; and the fact that this is a medical FAD like thalidomide and electroshock treatments were…
Someone enabled your desire to perpetrate child abuse, so you defend them. I get that, but:
“Everyone here is concerned about the welfare of children.”
REALLY? A company that’s making FAKE PENISES FOR LITTLE CHILDREN is concerned about their welfare? How far down the rabbit hole are you?
Obviously I can’t vouch for their character, but I do think people who do this sort of thing should seriously reconsider their lives. I do not wish them death but I do think they should be stopped. But it’s parents like you who actively want to abuse their children who really piss me off, not capitalist morons who enable you.
So, the ‘story of ‘O’ – is now being retold as the story of a four-year old girl and a strap-on. That is pretty pedophilic. The story of ‘0’ is a 1950s story about a young girl going to a BDSM resort to experience a sexual adventure that changes her life.
Holy 50 shades, what a Freudian slip.
They are selling strap-on dildos and suction cup dildos that have little to do with urination and more to do with adult sex toys.[Gallus pointed this out]. The suction cup is to be used on a flat surface, or fits over the female vulva, and is suppose to be sexually stimulating.
There was a story Gallus did about a transgender pedophile receiving help from the transgender law center:
Sylvia Rivera Law Project, a transgender organization that supports incarcerated males who are serving sentences for the rape, murder, and sexual exploitation of children. The organization encourages transgender youth to write to these men, including pedophile Lewis Stevens who represents the Sylvia Rivera Law Project as “Lennea Elizabeth Stevens” in a blog on their website. Stevens is incarcerated for possessing a collection of videos of children being raped. See a partial list of his collection here:
https://gendertrender.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/back.jpg
In one of the child-porn videos, it is described as two ten year old girls, one of the girls has a child side strapon. I wondered who made these in child-size. So, they ARE being used to make child porn.
This was the original article.
https://gendertrender.wordpress.com/2014/08/22/laverne-cox-launches-media-campaign-in-support-of-transwoman-synthia-china-blast-convicted-for-the-rape-murder-and-abuse-of-the-corpse-of-thirteen-year-old-ebony-nicole-williams/
This is how these men see female children.
Interesting. So far my facebook “friends” are icked out by the fake penises for children. I wondered what kinds of reactions I’d get.
Keep us updated. By the way, I totally relate to everything you’re going through. I’m glad you got through to your son, I haven’t been able to get through my daughter’s stubborn head. It’s a very scary place to be as a mother.
A blog called “When Momma Bears Get Angry” has linked here and written a critical response. Excerpt: “Transgender boys want to look like their peers, They are acutely aware that they lack a little bulge in their pants. Caring and supportive parents will recognise that and do what they can, from crocheted bird seed filled cylinders to more sophisticated inventions that stay put, can be worn while swimming, can be popped in a washing machine, these are testament to the love that parents have for their child.”
http://parentingjeremy.com/2015/09/27/when-the-momma-bears-get-angry/
“Crocheted bird seed filled cylinders”???
The story of ‘O’? OMG!
While I was reading that blog, for some reason I thought of Helen Keller at the dining room table, grabbing food off her family members’ plates, cramming it into her mouth, and making a big mess. At every meal. Helen’s parents gave her whatever she wanted and let her do whatever she wanted, partly because they weren’t equipped to deal with a deaf/blind child and partly because they felt so sorry for the poor little dear. Fortunately, they realized Helen wouldn’t be able to carry on like that forever and they brought in Annie Sullivan to teach her. Even then, Annie couldn’t get anywhere with Helen until she separated her from her parents and her old routine/habits.
I am NOT saying that transkids need an Annie Sullivan. But I do see shades of Helen’s parents in some of these families. Whatever the kid wants, the kid gets because the mom (I know it’s sexist, but it always does seem to be the mom) just can’t bear to say no to her special child or set limits on what the kid is allowed to do or have. Even a simple “this isn’t appropriate for you now; wait until you’re older” is beyond them.
For a dystopian picture of this…
http://radfemanonymous.tumblr.com/post/130037359890/what-a-dystopia-i-see-that-im-not-the-only
I showed the story about packers for kids to a friend of mine who isn’t trans, but is very pro-trans. She has also been an LGBT rights activist for decades. So we’re not talking about some right wing family values type of person here. She agreed that packers are not appropriate for ANY child (trans or not-trans) and that this whole thing is being driven by perverts.
The “Momma Bear Gets Angry” blog owner seems to be allowing any and all comments to be published. This latest one (below) has me scratching my head. Why does the mother think her 8-year-old girl needs anything to prove she can go in the ladies room with her MOTHER, just because she dresses in “rugged” clothing and “sports a very short haircut?” It seems to me this is really about the mother feeling awkward about supporting her child. And now she’s setting the child up to think she is really a boy. Also, how can a child this young even know what “gender nonconforming” means, let alone “identify” as such? My previous post about the introduction of gender propaganda into preschools will certainly produce more of these kids. Here:
September 29, 2015 at 12:00 am
My child is 8. My child identifies as gender nonconforming, and is AFAB. My child dresses in more rugged clothing, commonly associated the “boys”, and sports a very short haircut. I have had to provide an explanation to a NY school teacher as to why my child was waiting on the cue for the Ladies Room with me, at a public park at 11pm after seeing a performance. We shouldn’t have to explain what kind of genitals are in our kids’ pants. We should not have to explain why we want to help our kids feel accepted. We need allies. We need advocates. We need moms and dads and people with imagination and money and the courage to produce products that will help our children feel whole and accepted.
Please do not give up. Please continue to do the awesome work that you do!
Hey fourth, you know what might be handy to have on your blog? A glossary of all these crazy acronyms. 😁
Just an FYI;
AFAB= Assigned Female at Birth
AMAB=Assigned Male at Birth
From my “education” on this topic, I gather that trans-activists deem it unfair for a child to be labeled at birth as male or female strictly by looking at their genitals. They feel that gender is something that should be pondered upon and realized at a later date. That the individual is entitled to decide their own gender.
4thWaveNow previously posted an article about the offensiveness of assigning children male or female at birth here:
http://4thwavenow.com/2015/04/30/assigning-gender-at-birth-call-child-protective-services/
Thank you overwhelmed! I would never of figured that out. Especially since every time I read the phrase “assigned at birth” I grind my teeth. Our sex is not assigned to us at birth. It’s recognized. We’re not kittens. i.e. cat genitals are hidden in both sexes.
Yep, the trans activists pretend recognizing someone sex at birth is bad. One of their many pieces of reality denying trans-insanity. But how many transgender/transsexual people actually support the activists? Hmm. Thanks again.
CuriousDiamonds tweeted me to say that “trans kids have the right to pee.” My response:
https://twitter.com/4th_WaveNow/status/648191943000895488
And it’s totally ridiculous. I mean, did these children lose the ability to pee once they became transgender? I don’t think so.
Yes and did you know that men are unable to pee sitting down? Oh wait no…that’s actually not true.
Peeing position makes one a real man though so I get that.
Some of the dildoes they are selling, have nothing to do with going ‘pee’, they are sex toys for adults. The strap-on and the suction cup dildo are commonly sold in adult shops, they are selling ‘child-size’ sex aids for grooming four year olds.
Jeepers, someone attempting to justify the ridiculous content of the trans movement by telling – OMG – a lie! As Jane Austen would say “I am all astonishment”.
Yep they sure do have that right. I also have the right to question the recommendation that my kid take drugs of questionable safety and be put on a path culminating in mutilation of his genitals. How doing either of those things is going to fix disordered thinking is beyond me. And the real kicker is this is being pushed as being the best treatment when in fact that isn’t known at all.
What about my right to question that without being accused of being hateful?
To be fair to the person here seeking to convince herself and us, this was part of my child’s treatment plan as well. Drugs, path to body mutilation, and advocacy. I was instructed to join a parent support group (for what reason I can’t fathom because my kid’s situation wasn’t anything like the usual narrative). I was also instructed to force my child to join a trans advocacy group for teens. I did offer that to my kid. He said he was not interested. I even offered the blockers. Again, he rejected that. The therapist insisted this was necessary and I should force him. I was to take up this cause. Since when does advocacy work that way? If I’m going to put myself out there like that, it’s gong to be for something I believe in and not because someone tells me I must do so or my kid will suffer. I don’t buy it.
Wow. Thanks for telling us that. That is so unethical and unprofessional. I guess it’s another one of those for trans file of awful things. 😔📂
The strangest thing about the Gorman article, and about Gorman herself, isn’t that she sees nothing wrong with this. It’s that she appears to have no understanding that it might appall people. The article doesn’t attempt to mitigate concerns people might have, as if the whole thing is completely uncontroversial and how could anybody ever have an issue with it. How could anyone be this clueless?
Yes, that was exactly my reaction when she curtly responded to my tweet with a non-response, and then blocked me. It’s strange for someone who calls herself a journalist to simply slam the door when a large number of people raise questions and ask for more investigation. You’d think the controversy would pique her interest. But no.
Yes, I agree it is very fishy that Gorman doesn’t seem to understand that the majority would be appalled by this story and the fact that these “devices” exist for young children, and also that she doesn’t seem to comprehend that child sexual predators would find a child wearing one very exciting and titillating.
Totally agree. The reddit about her that fourth posted has a link in it to an article that she wrote about a doctor who has this whole medicalized version of pedophilia. That article had some balance. Another forensic shrink saying, no medicalizing it is BS. But most of the article was about this group called I think virtuous pedophiles in California who do counseling. So it’s sort of like child rape anonymous maybe? To help them not act on their feelings like AA helping people not drink. They say that they are sexually attracted to children but they recognize that it’s wrong and they don’t rape them. The forensic shrink who doesn’t buy this said continuing to see children in a sexual way is one of the things you should be trying to overcome and that they aren’t. So anyway the point is Ginger Gorman likes this kind of crap. Really dubious pedophile diluting stuff. Perhaps some huge scandal about her will blow up soon. 😊
Has anyone reported the vendor to the FBI, or even the local police department where this person operates? I won’t, because I’m not a parent. But if I were, I would be on the phone to the FBI and the cops right now.
Or how about the FDA? As someone else pointed out, the effects on the skin of a young girl aren’t inconsequential.
It is quite a bizarre concept (the fake penis “packer”). I have 2 boys and to be blunt I don’t notice any bulges. Kids really fixate on this stuff? Starting at 4?
I told my husband about this and he said so stuff a sock in your pants. Way cheaper. LOL
This is just something I don’t understand about this trans stuff at all. On the one hand we are told to accept our child’s preferred gender expression. Fair enough. I like that idea. But then on the other hand, these people are often pushed into a direction of the extremes of gender expression. To the point they often come off like very fake females or males. How would that not end up confusing a person? I don’t have to get up everyday and put on my fake self. I just get up and do what comes naturally.
My son in particular is not very “girly”. He has never been a rough and tumble “all boy” sort either, but definitely there is no doubt he is a boy. I have always let him choose his clothing, activities, etc. I don’t steer him into any sort of direction nor force him to be something he isn’t.
The therapist claimed he has been suffering a long time with his gender identity. This is based on me telling her I discovered he likes to wear female undergarments in bed. Because you know, that’s what females do. We get all dolled up to go to sleep and that activity excites us in and of itself (sarcasm in case that is not obvious). Alright. Well at the end of the day this isn’t a huge deal to me. So he likes female undergarments. I was not thrilled, but who is he really hurting? He keeps this activity very private.
So then I said to him, well I can’t imagine you walking around in a dress or acting hyperfeminine and putting on gobs of make up. This would be so radically out of character for him. I told him I’m afraid he’d completely change his personality. In large part I think this is part of the “treatment”. Which is the part I don’t understand. Even the requirement to live as a woman. What does that mean? Women vary wildly in terms of how they live as women.
To me if this were an issue of wanting to allow someone to express themselves in a way that felt authentic to them, there would be no requirement to “live as a woman”. The requirement would be to live how you want to live. I’m sure for some that might mean being stereotypical. But I doubt that it would be for all. Yet that seems to be the push. That is the part that bothers me very deeply. Something isn’t quite right about that, but I can’t quite articulate it perfectly.
My son said he has no interest in changing how he is. He has no plans to dress differently. He does not see himself as a frilly girl. Well in fact he never actually said he thinks he is a girl at all. For some reason he is having these unusual thoughts that he can’t quite make sense of. Other people try to make sense of the thoughts for him, but I don’t think they are getting it right. And that bothers me. Especially if the suggestion involves drugs and mutilation.
He flat out told me he’d like to have female body parts but not take hormones nor live outwardly as a very obvious female. Well, as crazy as that all sounds, it certainly makes more sense for him to do that than what he’d be pushed to do given what he has actually said (rather than how his words were twisted by therapists). He knows he is free to be himself at least at home. He doesn’t even go to school and all his activities are run by people who are all about being yourself. That’s not the part he is confused by I guess. It still seems really crazy and drastic and I can’t imagine it solving the disordered thinking.
Another thing I don’t understand is how dismissive a lot of these doctors and therapists are of mental illness. A person can have a laundry list of mental health problems and that is always seen as separate. Of course if a person thought they were really a giraffe we’d call that nuts. But if you are a boy and think you should have a vagina, that’s perfectly reasonable. Thinking about cutting off your penis is reasonable too. Becoming a giraffe, that’s not reasonable. Wanting to chop off your leg because you think you should have one less leg, also not reasonable. That’s a mental illness. I just don’t get that. My son does not have any other signs of an illness, but he is young. And the bigger BUT is mental illness is very prevalent in my family. A lot of my family members have or had mental illnesses. And I don’t mean the garden variety depression. I mean serious illness that interferes with their ability to function. I mentioned that to the therapists and they insist this can’t be a factor. It’s not related. I don’t buy it. In fact a family member confided in me that he had similar thoughts as my son and that person also has bipolar. He never thought to have his parts chopped off, but yes he struggled with unusual thoughts in that department. I mentioned that. That’s not relevant either I’m told.
Ok, well thank you for letting me get that off my chest. Since I can’t get a decent therapist I guess I have to help myself. : )
Bipolar disorder runs in families, so I would say it is indeed relevant. Most kids with bipolar relatives do not develop the disorder, but some do. It’s something to watch out for, the same way other families might have to watch out for diabetes or certain types of cancer. You sound like a parent with good instincts. It’s crazy that any professional’s go-to response in a situation like yours involves highly invasive medical procedures. You are right to ask questions. I hope you and your son find someone who can give you some helpful answers.
I could not agree more.
We had a good conversation today. I won’t bore people with the details. I at least feel like I’m getting him to really think about stuff.
On the plus side, he refuses to talk to a therapist about it. And at this point I think he is ok. I keep thinking it would almost be easier if there was obviously something very wrong. Aside from this, which really doesn’t cause problems, there just is nothing. Not that I’m wishing anything on him, but it’s hard to make sense of it.
unrestricted,
you are absolutely right that there is something really wrong with the therapists behavior. What you’ve met up with are psychotherapist who are just phoning it in. They read in a book or more likely an article a bunch of pat, simpleminded stuff about what trans is. Sort of like one of those bird guide books. So if any patient has even one of the characteristics that are said to be part of trans, then they have it. And that’s the diagnostic process. As if The patient having one thing that exists in transgender is the same as having a positive blood test say for hepatitis C. They don’t understand that when behaviors are symptoms, let alone utterances as in the case of trans, that it doesn’t work that way. This is how stupid people think. It’s appalling that is so prevalent in medicine in psychology. No standards.
As for the “living as a woman” I share your sense of the weirdness of that. It may well be that that is something Harry Benjamin in the 60s just pulled out of his ass to try to weed out the autogynephiles. And as we can see that was a smashing success. Dirt has an interesting history of transgender here
http://dirtywhiteboi67.blogspot.ca/2015/08/transgender-handbook-for-concerned.html
fourth wave, the above link is to a guide Dirt and her partner who’s a doctor have written for parents. Thought you might want to know that.
Awesome. That is the first book of its kind I have seen thus far.
I actually think my son is more in line with AGP. Of course nobody acknowledges that. They just convince the sufferer that really he has always been a boy trapped in a girl’s body.
I communicated with a local trans person. He contacted me when I asked around for info for therapists on a local trans Yahoo group. He is in his 60s and was very eager to share his story. He went on and on about how his therapist helped him remember that since he was 4 he really wanted to be a girl. Uh huh. He also claimed there was nothing sexual involved. I didn’t ask btw. He happens to have an unusual name so it was easy to find stuff out about him. He reviewed about 54 books on Amazon within a year’s time. About 50 of them were erotic literature featuring transexuals (but there is no sexual aspect) . Which whatever, I don’t care. I won’t judge. I believe he has had to deal with disconcerting thoughts and feelings. But nope, he insisted it was all about really being a woman in the wrong body.
Now he has lost his wife and family. The only friends he has left are other people in his situation. He told me he was very good looking as a woman. Again, I didn’t ask. He also mentioned being extremely depressed and suffering from a laundry list of mental problems including PTSD, disassociate episodes, and severe depression (apparently that’s not related). Some days he was thrilled with transitioning. Other days he thought it might be easier if he killed himself. I mean really I wanted to cry for this person. So yeah just for the hell of it I asked him to send me a picture. He was more than happy to. I wanted to see how “good looking” he is as a woman. I almost fell off my chair. It was quite hard to look at that picture. And ya know, really I don’t care about people’s looks. But trans people don’t all look like famous trans people on TV. They don’t have the best that money can buy to get the best results. And what was I supposed to say to him? Of course I’m not that mean to be so honest. Might set him off into a rage; some of these people get pretty ragey.
I know some make fun of these people, but really some of them are hurting badly and I feel nothing but a lot of sadness and compassion. It just kills me that they are being pushed into these “treatments” that are dangerous and really don’t work as well as claimed. Then what can a person do after? If they don’t kill themselves I guess they pick themselves up and dust themselves off.
And now they offer these “magical” treatments to children. I need therapy just to manage to get through the day with that thought and my child. And when I went looking, the therapist looked at me like I have 10 heads. She didn’t seem to believe me. At best sometimes she sort of humored me (I’m talking about a therapist who is not a gender specialist).
Wow, you could write a book about this stuff. Yes I think it’s horribly sad too. And I constantly wonder how much do the people who have the full surgical transition understand about what they’re really going to get at the end. Does a man get that he’s going to be castrated? Do they have any understanding of what that’s going to do to how they feel and function? And I bet dollars to donuts that most of the people who do this stuff have completely magical ideas about what hormones do. I mean the idea of hormones in pop culture is completely bizarre. I so completely feel like they’re being sold a bill of goods. Medicine is unregulated. I think a lot of people don’t know that. *Sigh*
Unrestricted, I just want to say I appreciate your comments here so much. It is obvious you are a caring parent, and a smart, reasonable person with excellent critical thinking skills. While I absolutely appreciate the information and support every poster here provides, I think your comments especially will be very helpful to parents who are in similar positions, and who over the next few years come here for information as the trans bubble grows and then — hopefully — finally bursts. I think you and 4thwave will never know just how many parents and kids you’re helping, even if you think you’re just venting to get stuff off your chest. The outlook you’re providing is important and I’m glad you’re contributing your and your son’s story here.
1) OK, somebody on Gender Trender’s comments found a medical source that gave usual sizes for boys genitals when they’re little kids. They then using genius math whiz skills determined how much bigger the let’s say kitty dildos? are than actual little boys genitals. Most of them were 66% bigger. 😳 Someone referred to them as being weirdly “girthy”.
2) it took a while for my brain to warm up and spit out this thought: if you’re going to make this bizarre fake genitals for ‘trans children’ why would you not make them accurate? Why would you make them too big, too sexually mature adult, with the veins thing? *Shudder* If it’s really meant to be ersatz male sex organs for girls, let’s pretend for a moment that that is an idea that even makes sense, why would you do it this inaccurately? How hard is it when you’re hiring somebody who sculpts the thing in terra-cotta clay and then it’s cast in silicone, to make an accurate representation? Suggesting this really is a pedophile product. Or this Tucker person just took adult dildos and had them make shorter. And said this is a kids genitals. Like some profiteer doing it half-assed.
Also I read that the suction cup is dildo thing to attach it to a flat surface for somebody to use it to penetrate her vagina.
Oh, and on the screenshot on Gender Trender down the side it actually in one little box says “dildo locker”. I have no idea what that means but the word dildo is right friggin there on the website. Nuff said.
Also, several people have pointed out that wearing one of those “stand to pees” would create other problems for little girls. Wearing them all day would create an odor problem, possibly cause a rash (from residual urine on the skin), and possibly urinary tract infections because of the unsanitary nature of the thing. So to avoid that, would the little girl be taught to REMOVE the STP and clean it out between uses? Is she going to do that in the boys’ bathroom? That isn’t going to help her feel like “one of the boys” is it? And as you point out, the “packers” are miniature adult versions, which also won’t exactly help her fit in. What about gym class, the locker room? No one is doing these little kids a favor by encouraging this. It’s creating a whole other set of problems, on top of conditioning the child to realize they have a fake version, and to want the “real thing” later, which leads to painful surgeries and NOT the real thing, because it is impossible to do (as cursory research into “bottom surgery reveals). Wouldn’t it be so much simpler, and kinder, to help a child feel good about herself, rather than sending this loud message that her body is wrong, wrong, wrong? The people promoting this will say the child already feels her body is wrong, but why on earth is it considered a loving thing to endorse that feeling of wrongness and set one’s own offspring up for all this difficulty?
I wondered the same thing about rashes and odors. And the size is weird. Again, I have two boys. I’ve seen it all in that department.
Seems like a ridiculously annoying extra step. What do these trans boys do when they get their periods? That must be interesting. Or is that what the blockers are for?
And what happens when that thing falls off and splashes into the toilet or urinal? Talk about embarrassing.
Isn’t life complicated enough?
LOL! It falling in the toilet! Of course. Ah, people keep finding new wrinkles to this thing. 😂 👖
Telling a child that he or she was “born in the wrong body” is HORRIBLE. This kind of language would be deemed unacceptable if it were applied to a child with any other type of disability or medical condition. Imagine an ad for Easter Seals or the March Of Dimes or the Muscular Dystrophy Association showing a child in a wheelchair, along with the caption: “Justin was born in the wrong body. He needs your help!” Advocacy groups would be outraged– and rightly so. Yet almost everything I’ve read and every TV show I’ve seen about trans kids emphasizes the “born in the wrong body” message. If this is what these kids constantly hear from their parents and therapists, it’s no wonder they hate themselves!
Here is an article about teens with autism who have spent their lives hearing “there’s something wrong with you” and the effect it has on them. http://www.autistichoya.com/2012/01/theres-something-wrong-with-you.html
And there is ZERO evidence that the “born in the wrong body” meme has any legitimacy anyway. Dysphoria is a real experience. I’m not denying that. But there is no research looking at children’s brains that shows an innate difference between male and female in a fundamental sense. There just isn’t. Brain studies look at adults, who necessarily have gone through many life experiences–and that includes exposure to hormones. Anyway, even if a child “feels” more like the opposite sex, that doesn’t mean the body should be seen BY THE ADULTS IN THE CHILD’S LIFE as an alien, repugnant enemy, or a diseased organ like an infected appendix. to be hacked and drugged. Those adults always say, “well, the child feels like they were born in the wrong body, we are just honoring that.” They have abdicated the time-honored role of adults in children’s lives, which is guiding the child to understand reality. That this equation has been reversed, unquestioningly, to the point that adults are actually encouraging little girls to wear modified dildos (it is a dildo company that makes these devices) is truly beyond belief. There is no such thing as “wrong” body. It’s the body we have. It’s the body we ARE.
To fourth wave, re ‘wrong body’ crap: beautiful!
To Jens Lyons, I have a disability. But I wasn’t disabled when I was a kid. And I’ve been feeling like there’s some disability parallel with this. But I couldn’t put my finger on it, you nailed it. Thank you.
You’re welcome. I am not an expert on trans kids, as I stated upthread. But I’ve done graduate level work in special ed and “born in the wrong body” just makes me cringe every time I hear it. It’s one thing for a child to feel dysphoric, but it’s something else when a parent or therapist reinforces it. It’s almost like the child’s already frail psyche is being smashed into pieces, not only by the language adults use but also by the unending medical interventions.
I think it’s different for someone who transitions as an adult. No doubt this individual has traveled a rough road, but he or she enters the transition with an an adult’s mind and an adult’s life experiences. The adult who transitions can do their own homework, find their own doctors, and decide if and when they will seek medical interventions. A child is at the mercy of the grown-ups around him/her. The kid’s parents and therapists might think they’re letting the child lead the process, but a child– and even a teenager– doesn’t have the cognitive ability or the life experience to make those kinds of medical decisions.
I meant a girl trapped in a boy’s body. See I can’t keep these things straight! Because they make no damn sense.
As someone who was, as a child, what is now pathologized as ‘gender dysphoric’ and ‘dysmorphic,’ I am not capable of expressing the disgust that I experience when I am forced to acknowledge that the psychiatric community consents- be it tacitly or overtly- to the procurement by parents of artificial penises for adolescents, let alone pre-pubescent girls. It’s as if they- the professionals- have absolutely no awareness of the mountains of research regarding child cognitive development or the manner in which children learn sex roles within the society which imposes them.
Although it’s embarrassing to detail, when I was a little girl and throughout adolescence, I hated myself, my sexed body. I had depression, suicidal ideation- that which has become the familiar narrative (aside from the fact that I now attribute my dysmorphia to the depression, not the other way around). There is virtually nothing that I have yet heard current ‘gender dysphoric’ girls or adolescents or Women say that is any different from the behaviors and beliefs that I held to at that time, and I can say with certainty that if I had been offered the chance to stuff my jeans with a realistic packer or STP, I would have leapt at the chance- especially if it would have been condoned by adults and/or other children. You see, I thought there was something wrong with me, and if my parents would have gone along with what I believed, they would have been agreeing with that assessment. She’s really a boy. There is something missing that we can simulate. She has a medical problem that we can fix.
With such an understanding- this verification of wrongness- how exactly is it that the child that I was would have a desire, let alone need, to accept her female body and integrate it with self? Given the discomfort that I already had, and as an adult with an understanding of brain plasticity, I know that my obsessive visualization of parts which were not actually there would have been exacerbated by such artifice and would have created an even greater disconnect with my body that was. Dysmorphia would have been worsened. I have no doubt.
These girls, these children, are being denied the opportunity that I had to actually find out who they really are. They will never know what it is like to live or love in their natal bodies without paraphernalia, surgery and exogenous hormone injections. They will not be able to acknowledge what it means to truly be female or have the chance to realize, with maturity, that there was never really anything wrong with them in the first place- that they were adapting to an environment hostile to females. They will never have that choice.
The chance to integrate their beliefs, their personalities, their likes and dislikes with the condition of being female is being stolen from them by a psychiatric community- and what has become an entire gender industry spawned from it- which profits from their distress: an industry that is selling them unrealistic beliefs based on the immature fantasies of children. Their fertility, their healthy bodies, are being sacrificed to a culture that tells them that they are wrong for expressing their natural abilities and preferences and makes them hate themselves for being themselves.
It stuns me, when I see such grotesque examples as is noted in this post, to realize how pathetic we have become as a culture that can actually embrace and promote the practice of providing artificial genitals for our children- a society that does not retch at the thought of so sexualizing a child. I wonder and I worry and I fight to try and draw attention to the fact that it is not our children who need to be altered, but instead, this culture of ours that is truly making us all sick.
Beautiful comment, fightingunreality. Thank you, and I hope to hear more from you. These girls ARE being robbed. Women like you are a living testament to what they will miss if this transgender trend continues.
I love this. No, not that you suffered in this way, but it helps for me to try to understand what my kid might be going through. I have just been talking to him. Encouraging him. Acknowledging what he is going through, but also telling him that these are confusing times. That he can express himself and figure out who he is without drugs and surgery because those things have a heck of a lot more cons than pros. And I’m not doing this in some sort of ugly, nasty brainwashing sort of way. Nobody cares about him more than I do. He isn’t someone’s ideological poster child. He’s a kid with some confusing thoughts. No way in hell do I want to do something to someone so young who might change his mind 100 times until he becomes an adult. I know I’ve changed my mind about lots of stuff too.
Thank you so much for sharing your experiences with us, fightingunreality. These are the stories that strengthen my conviction that riding it out … that living with the ambiguity … and that loving my kid and allowing her to self-express without validating any notion that she is “really a boy” is the right thing to do. Your story and those like yours affirm my conviction that blockers and hormones and surgeries are not the right thing to do. Especially not with a kid who’s old enough to drive but who still, truth be told, enjoys messing with nerf guns and watching stupid-kitty videos.
It is hard to live in this ambiguous place, for her and for me and for the rest of the family. But every day, week, month, year of extra brain development, of time to gain maturity before making irrevocable medical decisions, is worth however hard it might be.
I think some parents just cannot bear to see their kids in distress. So when some expert advises them that there is a fix for this distress, and that not jumping on the fix will mean the kid will suicide, they understandably panic, and they jump at the “fix.” Hoping that after the fix, it’ll all be fine, and that their kid will be happy. (Evidence for that latter contention is not very good, but … yeah.) This other path, walking with your kid in the distress, holding the kid close, keeping the kid safe without trying to lock the kid down completely — it is a hard path. No one is validating us for being so brave, so progressive. No one is validating us at all, for doing some pretty basic analysis and for choosing the route with the apparent least potential long-term risk. Instead, we get labeled as TERFs and transphobic and haters, as people who “actively kill trans people with our words,” as people who are “on the wrong side of history.”
But I’m a grownup. I can take it.
Long-term thinking is in pretty short supply in our society, in general. I hope my kid learns to think that way, someday. For now, I have to do it for her, do it on her behalf. Again, fightingunreality, I appreciate the time you took to come, read, and share. Be well.
Powerhouse comment, wasn’t it, Puzzled? We need more of these–and there ARE many stories like this from women (and men) who made it to adulthood without the intervention of “gender specialists”–and are so grateful for that fact. Fightingunreality would absolutely have been diagnosed with “gender dysphoria” now. And she would be a “false positive”–the elephant in the room the doctors and activists just never seem to talk about.
Thank you for your sharing this! It seems to me that what you have laid out here is clearly irrefutable. Your words are very powerful, staying with me to the point that I felt I needed to comment on your comment.
It’s painful reading these comments. As a therapist who worked with many teens who came into my office identifying as trans, I want you parents to know I did not automatically support their transitions. Like you, I was struck by the suddenness of this phenomenon of teens thinking they were born into the wrong body. My first concern was for the teen’s mental health, I looked at other causes. It’s interesting, around the time I started noticing an uptick in the number of kids identifying this way, I mentioned my concerns to a psychiatrist and a pediatrician who were both heads of the clinic where I worked, they were both on the brink of retiring, and they did not buy this new “trend” at all. They looked at what was happening as yet another medical fad. But, like I said, they were retiring. They were the old guard. The folks who replaced these dinosaurs (just kidding), had complete absence of critical thought for the trans-narrative. It was almost as if they wanted to distinguish themselves from those they were replacing by being more open-minded, more patient-oriented. The two folks who have come in to replace the old guard have a noted lack of developmental psych background. They are somewhat open to learning about it, but in general their work with teens (particularly any group billed as in any way marginalized – trans is pretty much the top of the heap in this regard) tends to be informed by a social-justice paradigm over something more clinical.
So, as far as finding a therapist more critical of the trans-narrative it might be helpful to find a practitioner who is more classically trained and who is over 50. Also, find someone who is clearly a thinking, intellectual type, rather than someone more prone to falling in with medical fads. I hate to say it but both the old dinosaurs were uber smart, male doctors. Perhaps it was their sense of privilege, but these guys were not afraid of stating their opinions and had enough power in the organization to easily hold onto their own sense of reality. The people who embraced the trans-narrative, apparently without thought, on my team, were, I hate to say this, all woman. So, perhaps in this instance, using this small sample, which may be utterly useless, it could be said that finding someone who isn’t as prone to the shifting sands of group think, who hasn’t been dependent upon being seen by other professionals as correct would help. Have your kid be seen by an arrogant, old man lol (who would have thought I would ever write that!!!).
Then again, I am not an old man, but I am definitely someone who has always valued and prized truth over belonging. I’m weird that way. That could be another way to screen for a trans-critical therapist, someone more old-style intellectual rather than social-justice oriented (not that I’m not down with SJ, but I qualify it when working clinically). Therapists who are critical of trans won’t be able to come out and say they are, so you’ll need to know to look for clues. You could also read their work, if they have any, some do on their blog and websites. If they say something like, well, it seems like your kid has some other mental health concerns, I’d like to focus on those for awhile before exploring their trans issues, that would be a good sign. If they do a thorough history of your family’s mental health, trauma history that’s a good sign. These histories are an absolute must.
If a therapist is hopping on the trans explanation right out the gate, that’s a sign they are inexperienced and lacking clinical authority. This is why you probably want your kid to see someone whose been practicing awhile, like 20 yrs at least, because honestly clinicians were trained so differently in the past, the training was less politicized, more intellectual and critical and I guess a bit more honest as far as research. It wasn’t perfect in the past, obviously there were abuses, but there were general, shared standards of care and it was a bad thing to breach them. There was more personal responsibility, more commitment and investment on the part of the clinicians. Now the vast majority of the clinicians and psychiatrists in the org where I work constantly complain about being overworked and exhausted and feel the org is screwing them over. They are too afraid to go into private practice where they could perhaps see fewer people in a day and therefore have more mental space to see each client as an individual. When people are overworked in healthcare, it means the treatment suffers, they don’t have time to look into the background of new therapies. Honestly, none of the folks I worked with had any training on working with transgender kids, they were starting to talk about getting some, but this is just now happening. And I practice in a large, metropolitan city. There are no standards of care or official certification processes yet in place for vetting transgender therapists.
These days training standards for therapist is pretty weak in general. Most good clinicians study for years and years, join institutes and hopefully become critical of a lot of what they learn in those, the point is there are no short-cuts, it takes clinicians a really long time to become effective. Younger clinicians tend to be swayed more by current trends because they just don’t have enough experience with seeing loads of different people, also their training is different and they have much less clinical confidence.
If I were a parent and my kid was experiencing this issue, I would also just be as honest and loving as you could with them about your concerns, as many of the parents here have been. It’s hard because you don’t necessarily want to use this situation as the time to explain to your kid that doctors and the medical profession have been co-opted by activists and other folks looking to profit from their injury in some way. It’s like there’s so much that needs to fall away in order for you to help your kid. And if your kid is already unstable, it could be frightening to see mom or dad sounding like they’ve been pulled into a conspiracy theory.
I think the best way to combat becoming reactive (as we do when we feel nobody believes us and yet we feel we must continue to speak as so much is at stake) is to deal with our own grief at being so alone and not being believed. Honestly, this level of self-doubt and invalidation is traumatic for people, particularly people who have in general spent their lives being respected for their measured take on the world (your basic educated liberal parent). I honestly can’t think of anything more hellish than to suddenly find your privilege of being taken at your word ripped out from beneath you. But this is exactly what is happening to parents who question the trans-narrative. Caring, truly loving parents (not enabling parents necessarily, but good, solid parents) are being made to question their motives. It’s heart-breaking for me as a therapist to see this happening to families. I wish I had more answers for you. It might be best to keep your child away from people who bill themselves as gender specialists.
In order to reach your child you will absolutely need to find a way to regain your own internal grounding. This blog is obviously helping with this task. You may need to “let go a little”, which is sounds like many of you have done. By this I mean, do not fight your kid on this issue. When we deal with kids with other compulsions, such as eating disorders, we encourage parents to stop talking about food.
1234lane, this would make another excellent guest post so that it has more visibility. As I’m sure is evident from this comment thread, and many others on this blog, sane voices like yours are so sorely needed for both the parents and the kids living through this weird time in history. I may write a post with your comment as the core. If you’d like to add or change anything, please let me know. And thanks.
courage engenders more courage. I’m no saner than anyone else, we need to smoke out the good sense, it’s hiding deep down there in most folks…people are just terrified of losing affiliation, a basic human requirement, like air and water and food, if they speak up. But in the end our silence and complicity with what isn’t true in our hearts will wind up depriving us of true connection with others.
I did talk to Dr. Paul Mchugh via e-mail. He is older and says a lot of what you mention here. He also was around long enough to know what went on at Johns Hopkins. He offered to talk to me on the phone, but that isn’t ideal to me. Not to mention my insurance won’t pay for that. Although he did not say whether or not he’d charge me for a phone call.
Anyhow, I think looking for someone a bit older might be the way to go. They’d be less likely to have jumped on the bandwagon. Something that is supposedly so incredibly rare seems to have become an epidemic. Even my son has started telling me other people in his class “have this”. Have what? Really I don’t get this at all. Strangest thing ever.
This wouldn’t be such a big deal in terms of some weird thing teens are latching onto if it didn’t involve drugs and body mutilation. When I was a teen I had my fair share of behaviors my parents shook their head about too. But, again, it did not involve chopping off body parts.
I’ve spent the morning responding to your comment, I may turn the response into a post on my own blog as it is upward close to 3000 words.
I think you’ve got a great voice to share this story, and you should keep gushing forth with what you are witnessing. If we can all share what we are seeing it will possibly show another side of what is happening.
The thing that got me about the trans kids is how when I asked them if they were friends with others who identify similarly, they always were, usually their groups consisted near exclusively of other kids who had found some way to label themselves as some variety of queer. I’ve written a theory about this, I’ll try and dig it out. Our children’s primal and basic need for affiliation is being tapped, as well as their fear of losing affiliation (in our day we found this to be looking “uncool”). Being straight, heterosexual, “cis”, is essentially a sign you are not a conscious person. And if you’re not “conscious” than you are part of the problem. Queer anything has become a signifier of what we would call “the deliberate life”. Cis means you are selfish and harm others without even thinking, Cis oppresses and harms. What insecure kid in their right mind would want to identify as that? I honestly think this is all the biggest mind fuck I’ve ever encountered. Sorry to curse, but it really is just the definition of psychic rape in my opinion, literal torture forcing our kids to fear just being alive and human.
Shit! I really like this comment. And I am both shocked and unsurprised to learn that herds of teens are going around thinking there trans/”queer”. I was a teenager in the late 70s. A small group of us went in for being hippies. It was laughable. We dressed silly and had our very important special little taste in music. And having that musical taste was incredibly “political”. We were in no danger. And then later on outgrew it. But otherwise the thing you’re describing of ‘the bad people are like this and we’re not like that so we are good’, we had exactly the same dynamic. The content was just different. We were “heads” versus “straights” who, like how you describe “cis”, were responsible for all the social ills in the world. And we would pick up social ills arbitrarily out of current events.
Yep, this is a fad. Including on the part of therapists.
Thanks, lane. I appreciate your insider commentary. Very enlightening. And I appreciate your last comment too — the advice consisting of ‘just don’t talk about it a lot.’ I let my kid lead there, and I’ve felt a lot of guilt about that, constantly wondering if I should be bringing it all up, if I should be more “proactive,” initiating deep talks, offering the gender clinic (which knowing what I know now, I’d never offer), blah blah blah.
Thing is — other than the hair-trigger irritability and ADD that the kid has evidenced since toddler days? She is actually in a good place. Has friends, carries a serious academic load and handles it fairly well, talks positively about the future. Persistently presents “boy” (clothes, short hair, and sigh, still binding) but … she doesn’t bring up the trans thing, and hasn’t for over a year. Even when stressed about school and such, she does not bring it up. Nor has she asked for a different name, pronouns, social transition.
So I just don’t push her regarding gender, period. There are some awkward moments out in the world around that, but … eh, I just act like it’s normal if a girl wants to not dress/act girly. It’s working for now. She’s obsessing about other stuff that seems to be more normal teen stuff. I would not pretend to think that this business is in any way “over” but — the more parents emphasize it, panic, act like it is an emergency situation (even with kids who are not in particular distress about it) — the more the kids will be convinced that something serious is wrong. This fixation about identification and labels and gender, as if that is what a life is really about? That is not a healthy situation. Validating and abetting that fixation is not a healthy situation.
Ditto on the parental reaction piece. Even very young kids aren’t stupid. If they see mom and dad reacting in a way the kid wants, kid does EXACTLY what will merit more reaction.
puzzled, I’m not sure if this will help at all, but I am a fairly young (mid 20s) lesbian woman and I was recently thinking about why I didn’t realize I was gay earlier even though I clearly knew that I was all of the things contained within gay; I think a big portion of it had to do with not knowing a single adult person who was gay. Granted, I grew up in a very conservative rural community, so this might not be the case, but my (armchair, to be fair) suggestion is to maybe see if there are any GNC adult women that you know that could be a role model in your daughter’s life. I never thought I could be gay because I didn’t know what that looked like for adults; I didn’t think I could have a normal life that way. I suspect something similar is going on for a lot of girls who are experiencing a new resurgence in hyper-femininity and can’t find someone who looks like them or how they would like to look and identifies (that slippery word) as a woman. Just a thought. I hope that helps and I wish you the best of luck; I really feel like you are doing the right thing.
Thanks for the comment, notold. I do think my daughter is a lesbian, just affected by a pretty heavy dose of culturally mediated lesbophobia. She’s apparently stuck on the idea that lesbians are gross, but transmen are cool. Certainly she did not learn this idea in our household. We do know a fair number of gay people, but all men and gender-conforming females — no butch lesbians. I agree this is unfortunate in terms of our child being able to find some models for her potential future. I thought perhaps when she went off to college this would change, but so far, no. She’s only a bit over 19 so there’s still lots of time for discovery as long as she does not start doing irrevocable stuff to her body. (In the end, nothing is actually irrevocable in terms of her self-identification, but physically there are things that are impossible to completely undo, even if desired.)
She’s never had a romantic relationship with anyone of either sex, which is part of my discussions w/her. How can you contemplate radically changing your body when you don’t yet understand the cool stuff your body can do???
At any rate, more than two years after I wrote that post she’s pretty much in the same place — not going forward w/transition though legally she could do so, and not socially transitioned, either, though always strenuously “nonconforming” in appearance. (In terms of female social conditioning, to me she still very much acts and reads as female. Maybe somewhere, deep down, she knows that calling yourself male and acting in society as male, in the company of males, are two different things.)
So, we shall see. It’s a long road. Once she finishes college, becomes self-supporting, I’m in the “it is what it is” place at that point. I won’t ever feel transition is a great choice but … it’s not my choice to make. At some point you have to let your kid be an adult. To me, when the kid is acting as an adult, my responsibility is over for raising them. (Not for loving them. But to me, to make such a choice at 25, or even 21, is vastly different than at 15, which is when my former happy tomboy started thinking she might be trans.)
All the best to you; I appreciate your comments.
Just thought y’all would want to know that the article about packers for kids is spreading to the mainstream. I was scrolling through my Facebook feed and saw that one of my friends had posted it. This friend is not an activist or anything like that. So far, everyone who commented on her post is appalled.
I’ve also been sent several links from Tumblr blogs run by “trans men.” Many of them are also appalled. It’s a bridge too far for nearly everyone.
Hm. The reporter “reached out” to TranZwear owner Kirkwood-Tucker who had “no further comment.” Time for some more “reaching out” by the media, perchance?
http://www.ijreview.com/2015/09/432633-company-controversially-manufacturing-devices-transgender-kids/
I sincerely hope that this gets wider play in the media. It is a subject that needs to see the light of day and be discussed openly and rationally.
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Not to be “unwoke” but I find the idea of selling fake penises to 6-11 year olds extremely disturbing.
Fake penises to children who aren’t old enough to know what transgender is?
This is disgusting, immoral, and should be illegal.