Seven years on, 4thWaveNow founder Denise (also known as Marie) made her first public appearance in a conversation with YouTuber/podcaster Benjamin Boyce on April 9, 2022. The lively interview is available on YouTube (full video) as well as Spotify.

The central theme of the “calmversation” was the US federal government’s embrace of “affirmative” care for gender dysphoric minors–whether their parents are onboard or not.

Denise and Benjamin also talked at length about the organizations currently engaged in promoting gender-identity instruction in US schools, a practice that has been in place for many years. In addition, they touched on some rather controversial topics, including the choice of some “affirming” parents to purchase fake penises (“packers”) and tucking underwear for their small children.

The day after her chat with Boyce, Denise added some more detail and clarifications about the topics they discussed. You can find them in this Twitter thread, also compiled here.