4thWaveNow was started by the mother of a teenage girl who suddenly announced she was a “trans man” after a few weeks of total immersion in YouTube transition vlogs. (The daughter has since desisted from identifying as transgender.) After much research and fruitless searching for an alternative online viewpoint, this mom began writing about her deepening skepticism of the ever-accelerating medical and media fascination with the phenomenon of “transgender children.”
4thWaveNow has now expanded to feature not only the writing of the founder of this blog, but that of other parents, formerly trans-identified people, and people with professional expertise and experience with young people questioning their gender identity.
Parents, please introduce yourselves and feel welcome here.
From the founder and primary author of 4thWaveNow:
I created this site because mine is a viewpoint that is seldom publicly heard: that of a left-leaning parent who is critical of the dominant paradigm regarding transgender politics and treatment. My primary concern is children, teens, and people in their early 20s, particularly girls who are contemplating medical transition. While I may disagree with their views, I do understand that consenting adults have the right to do what they choose with their own bodies and minds.
Online, I have been accused of being “unsupportive,” even “abusive,” simply for daring to question whether lifelong medical treatment–injections and plastic surgeries–is the answer for every young person who has gender dysphoria. In my world, caring about, listening to, and lovingly parenting a child or young adult is not necessarily a synonym for unexamined “support” for everything the child says or wants. In fact, one of the main jobs in parenting a teen is, not coercion, but the offering of alternatives; discussing, and sometimes disagreeing.
It is my contention that the medical and psychological establishments are letting us all down in their rush to diagnose young people as “transgender,” then to give the message that medical treatment is the answer. Much of my writing now and in the future will focus on the adults who are pushing so many kids into extreme treatments. And I do consider hormones and surgery extreme treatment, if there is any possibility that something less drastic might be a solution.
If you are a parent looking for support, you’ve come to the right place. We are interested in hearing from parents, family members, concerned professionals, and allies from across the political spectrum. However, I am not personally in accord with conservative, religious-fundamentalist views about sexuality. I am a strong supporter of gay, lesbian, and bisexual people.
Please read blog posts carefully before asking questions or commenting. I will respond when I can to respectful input. I don’t have time to keep arguing the same points over and over again.
Most of the voices in the media and in medicine are in opposition to my views. I’m presenting an alternative.
Re: Fighting for the girl that deserves to thrive: Yes, it is all relative, isn’t it? Everyone out there seems to rubber stamp it all, everything as A-OK. I wonder how the average person defines transgenderism? No, we are not talking about being trapped in the wrong body–but the oblivious out there (it hasn’t hit them) think that is what we are talking about. My daughter went through the same phase as yours is describing, fear of men, hatred? She considers herself a “survivor” and I don’t know what happened to her and if it was real or all in the mind and dogma. Keep fighting (without pushing the rebellion button). Best wishes for a good outcome!
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Thank you so much for your support. It’s so hard to open the conversations when every word I utter is viewed as an attack. Such a hard lesson on patience, delicacy and urgency.
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http://gendercriticaldad.blogspot.co.uk/2016/05/ignore-redirect-and-reward-dealing-with.html
This approach has helped us enormously. Just calms things down, helps everyone live and breathe.
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That is excellent advice! I wish I had known what I was dealing with before she was gone, but I was clueless and I think I did over-react.
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Some of you might already know about this, so apologies it if is old news. I have been following SJW_Nonsense on twitter, and she is talking about the safe schools initiative in Australia.
She recently posted some info which might be useful:
A great comment by a person here who tells the story of how she and her daughter survived trans-trenderism:
The safe schools website points students to BDSM sex websites etc:
Safe Schools: Anti-Bullying or Political Agenda:
https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/acl/pages/5231/attachments/original/1478044371/Safe_Schoos_Brief_-_2_November_2016.pdf?1478044371
There is far too much for me to cut and paste here, but anyone who is interested in this subject, i highly recommend you follow @sjw_nonsense and @clairlemon (Claire Lehmann) on Twitter as both women report on this subject daily. If you want the full picture, I suggest, especially in regards to Safe Schools, that you read the last 5 days of SJW Nonsense’s feed. A lot of good info there and comments from other concerned parties, such as Gender Critical Dad.
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Thank you posting. Yes, it is crazy. I have seen similar stuff in my corner of the U.S.
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I am so very grateful to you, 4thWaveNow. You cannot know how much this site has helped us. I am so very appreciative of all the commenters. This support means so much – it’s impossible to express our thanks enough. All the resources that are here and the sources they’ve lead me to online, have been instrumental to our sanity and our strategy for saving our girl.
We have kept our conversations with her very positive for the first few months that this came to light. We simply presented her with some facts and articles (which she read) and asked her to keep an open mind and told her we love and accept her and support her no matter what. We told her how she is a smart, brave, and strong female with a beautiful healthy mind and body. Afterward, we gave her a one-page summary of all the things we talked about – reinforcing several main points often discussed in the trans-skeptical arena. These bullet points included things we love about her too. We took her on a couple outings and did things she loves to do and just spent time with her. We thought things were going well and didn’t have any confrontations until the other day. When clothes shopping for ‘dress clothes’ – I’m sure you can imagine the scenario. I said that I was not buying boy’s clothes for her – it was a very difficult experience.
Then it all came out. Through sobs, she walked me through it – anxiety about not having friends at the start of this school year, starting a new (middle) school, starving herself for 2 months, thinking she might be gay and having suicidal thoughts – she went online to try and figure out why she was so unhappy – especially when she has a nice life – so as she searched for answers online, she saw transgender vlogs and thought “maybe it’s because I’m transgender.” Months went by without talking to anyone about it and slowly this transgender solution was the answer for her and then she told us she was trans and wanted us to take her to a doctor to consider surgery.
We read everything, kept an open mind, attacked our own gut feelings and considered her actually being trans. We were previously very trans supportive socially, but knew something wasn’t right when this happened – it just didn’t add-up with our daughter. Now, I know enough to critique or question phrases like “transitioning to male” or at least I must qualify it to say that someone transitions ‘as much as modern medicine and surgery will allow,’ because part of our reasoning to her was that transitioning is only a solution for a very small number of people as a method of last resort. It is simple biology that the person never truly, medically becomes the opposite sex. A person they can live as though they are in many ways and be as close biologically to their desired gender as possible – but never fully as if they were born as that gender. I also told her that I respect and appreciate ADULTS who transition and truly hope they are happy, but that I am sad that they had to go through it. I am sad for children and teens who are surrounded by professionals who aren’t looking for other explanations and patient with finding solutions – especially when so many have a good chance to be happy adults if they don’t transition.
After just a few weeks of us presenting her with some facts and questions, and during and emotional “confession” about her suicidal thoughts after the clothes incident, she said “now I’m not sure I am transgender.” But it still has a huge hold on her and I worry that she feels like we are squashing her ray of hope for this solution and now she has to deal with figuring out why she hates herself so much. We have to help her see another solution – one of acceptance and patience and living life to the fullest.
I have so much more to say – I suggest instead of berating them for watching transgender vlog after vlog and going online instead of talking to us, to congratulate them for trying to independently solve their own problems. At the same time, we instituted boundaries and rules – we took away her access to youtube, but provided tons and tons of her favorite alternative music and added instagram. Everything is a balance and you have to look for the positive.
My point in sharing this story is to say that when presented with some facts, reasoning and logic, doing the work of loving her and giving her tons of family support and commitment to positivity and to helping her be a healthy person, and even having so much fun with her during the process, we are actually getting her to question her self-diagnosis. It can happen. We are far, far from a resolution. It has been pure hell. Everything in our lives has suffered. I am fighting my own occasional depression slide downhill because of this. Our next step is to show her the BBC documentary “Transgender Kids: Who Knows Best” and continue our questions and listening to her without instant responses as much as possible – we are going to encourage all the wonderful things about her not related to gender and talk about her hate for herself and go on this difficult journey with her. We may eventually find a therapist we trust. We will be ever-vigilant for signs of suicide. Now she says that she is much happier than before when she was going online at the beginning of the school year (she now has more friends too), but it is still there – everyday – an underlying depression that we absolutely must address. I believe that we will get through this without further requests for “transitioning to male” and that she will come through it all as a confident, happy, woman – possibly gay – which we have said all along to her – is fine with us.
I leave with this question: How can this be? – that she can pull through this struggle and learn to love and accept herself – when I know without the faintest doubt that if we had taken her to a so-called gender therapist, we’d have a plan for a double mastectomy and a prescription for “T.” Something in this world and the psychiatric profession has to change. Something has to change and it’s not my daughter.
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The BBC documentary is a good call. The research I did after watching it led me here. If you search for ‘gender affirmative therapy’ 4th Wave Now is the fourth result from the top.
I’m also kind of in awe that you pulled off giving a one-page summary, with bullet points, to a teenager.
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Thank you for this story. My 17 yr old daughter is determined to be transgender. I say determined because I also believe that she has been heavily influenced by society’s eagerness to promote trans as a solution to dealing with feelings and emotions that young teens typically have to deal with(hormones, sex, Self critical, Self esteem) mental illness and self image issues. I am scared out of my wits that my daughter will do something drastic before I can find the right help for her. I welcome any direction/information anyone can share.
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You are doing a great job. Yes, how did it come to this? That we destroy young bodies (and perhaps minds) for a trend, a passing obsession, a mental illness?
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Well said Ourguts – wishing you, your family and your daugher all the best
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4thWaveNow, I’m trying to read everything on this site but I keep losing track of where I’ve got to. Can you create a one-page article list that just has the titles of all the articles and links to them? It would make navigation a lot easier. Thanks.
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Will add to to do list.
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That would be wonderful. 4thwavenow is my go to site for medical and scientific data regarding the transing of kids, and I often find myself lost, trying to remember which article had a specific link.
Anyhoo, phenomenonal work you folks do here. I am always linking this site to people who are curious about trans trender ism. Such a great resource. The anecdotes in the about section are amazing as well – people need to understand that social media is brainwashing kids into believing they are something they are not.
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Underneath “fighting for sanity” and “throwing lifelines to desperate parents” 🙂
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Thank you to everyone who keeps these conversations going and helps create a supportive place to learn and share. We need each other desperately, especially when we see our children are sad and just want to fix it any way we can.
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RgutsRloudandclear, just wanted to echo what you said about how much our child’s sadness affects us and can pull us into the depths of depression where it becomes even more difficult to think clearly. I think we all want to be a steady, consistent, supportive voice of reason, advocating for slow and careful thinking on this issue. It I is easy to lose hope that you are doing what is right for the long term even when you try to be gentle and supportive in your approach to providing guidance. Especially in the current culture.
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I don’t know what to do and I could really use everyone’s advice. Last summer my daughter told me she is Pansexual. I was initially very upset, however, I am now ok with it. She has slowly started changing her looks in the past 6 months, like cutting her hair short and dying it different colors. For her birthday, she wanted to go see a youtuber, Miles Chronicles. I bought the tickets without knowing who he was. I went to the show with her and she was called on stage and she announced to the whole audience and me that she wanted to be referred to as he/him and that her friends call her Kevin. My heart dropped. I didn’t know what to think. However, I did tell her that I loved her and would support her. I can handle her being Pansexual, I cannot handle her wanting to change her identity. I found out 2 of her friends feel the same way. She is constantly on YouTube for hours in her room. She has NEVER displayed any kind of behavior in a masculine way at all, ever. Only 2 years ago, she had boy band posters all over her room. My gut feeling says she is being influenced by these Youtubers. I want to have a talk with her and tell her what I think, but I am going to wait until she is done with her finals. I don’t know what to do or what to say to her. What do I do about her constantly on her phone with all of these videos she watches? HELP!!
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Jill– I am so sorry. Your daughter is in a very dark Disneyland and she thinks it is real but it is not. I write from a darker place, as I have lost my daughter. All of these stories with parents fighting for their children and being in conversation, well, I tried. I knew that she had gotten in to a very dark place via her phone and computer. She was obsessed. I did everything to shut it down but ultimately failed. I had no idea to what extent she was doing all of the stuff you mention above. I knew she was chatting with strangers, seeking something, and that there was pornography involved–weird stuff. Please see the site, Transgender Reality– the Aims and Purpose of this Website. If you could remove your daughter from her current environment, and her phone and computer (take a long trip?) perhaps not realistic for most of us… I think ourgutsRloudandclear (see above) is doing a great job of keeping in communication with her daughter and showing lots of love. We did not have that opportunity (as she didn’t share) and now she is over 18 and off in another world and that world is dark indeed.
Hang in there. Wishing you all the best outcome…
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How awful for you and your daughter and what a dreadful way to find out she has been taken over by this ‘cult’. I can only advise as to what feels right to me going through it with my daughter for over a year now. I would say let her know you understand that this is real to her whilst being clear as to what you believe. Try to encourage her to read a variety of views including those on here. Or just slipping into conversations things you have read including those from detansitioned young people. She may not listen but over time I do think some of it gets through. We never took away our daughters phone but do try to limit time spent on it. We compromised by using her preferred name (which is gender neutral) but not using male pronouns. We try not to make an issue of other things eg clothing and haircuts and have found her to be a bit more relaxed there. We have also found seeing a therapist helpful in that it facilitated conversations at home more easily buy have made it clear to the therapist that we do not believe she is transgender. I would add that we are in the UK so are seeing nhs therapists, not sure where you live and what the therapists are like there.
Only time will tell if what we are doing is right as is the case for all of us. I would add that over the past year she has become less oppositional as we understand eachothers point of view better. Hopefully this will be the case with your daughter. I think you do right to let her finish her exams first and tkae it slow.
Wishing you all the very best
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That’s really good advice from Jessie. If you can, slow things down, encourage flexible thinking, concentrate on things outside of gender, giver her time to mature emotionally. This is real to them, and so you may find arguing against her only makes her more determined, or pushes her into a corner, or worse into the arms of a cult. She may be as scared as you are underneath all the celebration for “coming out”, so make sure she knows how much you love her, come what may. Get some counselling for yourself too if you can – we have been dealing with this for nearly a year, and it can become all-consuming. I think there are many complex psychological and societal reasons in a toxic mix (many explored on this site – thanks 4thwave!) which is leading to so many girls are declaring they are boys – your daughter is the victim here, not the cause. All the best to you.
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I am forever grateful to this site!! My story is IDENTICAL to the blogger’s!! My daughter has ASD, PANDAS, OCD, PTSD and has had a lot of trauma in her life of 13 years.
How do I get in touch with you???
I am an amateur filmmaker and want to do a documentary covering all the important facts, concerns and issues on this rapidly growing epidemic and specifically want to work directly with those here; especially the therapists and doctors supporting us.
There is a definite link between kids with Autism Spectrum and gender confusion!
I’m willing to travel the globe to complete this project.
You can contact me at:
alohiwarrior@gmail.com
Many Thanks & God Bless,
Amy and Amelie in Oregon
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Dear Friends,
I wrote a while ago about my girlfriend’s son, Silas who was socially transitioned to Lara in kindergarten this year. The saga continues, yet I see a wonderful little person everyday who is unfairly caught up in the madness of this trend. I read everything, listen to your posts, try and keep up with the research. My girlfriend’s couples therapist recommended that the 2 ex-partners read a book called, “The Gender Creative Child”, by Diane Erensaft in San Francisco, Forgive me if this book has already been brought up. Thoughts on it for those who may have read it? Lastly, I live in the States and would love to watch the recently mentioned BBC documentary. I am finding it difficult to locate. Anyone?
Thanks, as always for an amazing site.
Annie
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That book is toxic. There is a link to an archived version of the BBC documentary on another site. Anyone have a link?
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I am in the states and I used the US link as directed: BBC documentary, Transgender Kids: Who Knows Best? aired in January 2017 (archived version available to US viewers here: https://archive.org/details/BBC-trans-kids). Best wishes.
This video and lots of info from this blog and other sites helped our daughter come to the realization that transitioning isn’t right for her. There’s still a part of her that questions if she’s transgender, but given that we’ve only been talking to her about this for about 2 months, we’ve come a long way! She decided she was trans about 9 months ago and all the ‘positive-trans-is-wonderful’ ideology in youtube vlogs and the general prevalence in today’s culture brain-washed her during all that time. It will take some time for her to see her own truth – that she is not trans – never was particularly masculine in any way and always comfortable in her own skin until she suddenly ascribed transgender as the cause of her feelings of anxiety and depression.
Again, best wishes.
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Thank you for the link, Ourguts. I was able to watch the film right away. I appreciate that the film is not mono-visioned, like so much else out there today. Thanks also for sharing your experience with your daughter.
Thanks to 4th Wave, too for sharing your opinion about the book, “The Gender Creative Child.” Now that I have watched the film and see that Spack wrote the forward to the book, I am heavily jaded. But I will finish it, since to fight for the truth, we must be informed. As I started to get into the book, I was starting to feel a bit creepy.
Onward, and my heartfelt best to you all. I keep telling my girlfriend that she is not alone. You make that more true than ever.
Yours,
~Annie
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Welcome!
I am feeling so positive after this weekend and our latest discussion with our daughter (age 13). I wrote a bulleted summary of the most likely scenario that brought her to this point of questioning her gender. She read it in our presence, cried a little and said it was pretty much exactly how she felt. She said she thought she might be trans because she never fit in with the girls who just gossiped all the time. She was comparing her looks to the other girls and because she wasn’t a skinny, tan, blonde, she felt that she couldn’t compete. (She’s quite beautiful actually) This is such craziness getting to the root of her true feelings. She says that she doesn’t feel trans anymore. We have said all along that we don’t want her to say what she thinks we want to hear – and we will love her always whether she thinks she trans or not. I believe her. She’s starting to see that she can be a strong, brave girl. This is exactly why this trans-positive culture is so toxic to teens! Teens are so vulnerable when it comes to their bodies. Combine that with wanting to try on different identities as most teens do throughout adolescence. Add a pinch of rebellion against the mainstream and routing for “the underdog” [meaning standing up for ‘the oppressed”]. Then combine all those very normal, very strong, typical teen feelings with one of the common categories for trans vulnerability – autism, underlying mental condition or disorder such as anxiety and depression, gay or lesbian feelings, or a traumatic event and these kids find their salvation in the trans wave. Only it’s not the real answer – not for the vast majority.
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I am so glad that you are in honest communication with your daughter. I didn’t have the opportunity– she hid this all from us. She was dark and remote and addicted to her phone. She latched on to the trans identity in college and we had absolutely no input or influence. As with your daughter, our daughter was pretty, not masculine, young for her age, and totally overshadowed by the popular, gossipy, blonde, boy-crazy girls. She was very sensitive and this contributed to her identity meltdown. She was also diagnosed with a serious mental health condition. I actually believe what she was doing online sent her over the mental health cliff and that mental illness did not come first.
I wish everyone well and a good outcome for their child.
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Your daughters story breaks my heart. I’m so sorry to hear you say that you lost her.
I feel fortunate that this happened while my kid was still at home and not at college – or even just further along in her teen years when they pull away even more. I’m thinking that some mental illnesses are a process that take time. I can completely see the scenario where a mild, initial stage of a disorder begins and then it worsens into a full-blown disorder while undergoing a complete transformation. My daughter nodded furiously when I referred to transitioning as identity suicide. She had wanted to destroy herself and become a new person with a fresh start. That is what is so appealing about this. They don’t tell you that you have another choice.
Best to you and yours.
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Hi to ourguts-
My daughter is 14 and sounds very much like your daughter. I love your idea about the bulleted list and articles you gave her – can you please share what you gave her with me so that we could borrow ideas on how to talk with her?
Much Thanks and best wishes for a great outcome!!
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Hello outputs
I too would appreciate if you could share your bulleted list as I am in a similar situation with my child and all the gender clinics just reinforce their beliefs without exploring other options. help!
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In answer to requests regarding our approach with our child, here is a broad outline. It is very specific to our daughter, our family, our current situation and our history. This is not meant as a general guide for anyone. I am just trying to help anyone that finds it helpful.
We kept a positive tone. We asked her to write a short phrase on how she is feeling every day. We noted that her bad days of more anxiety were her days she felt more like a boy. It has taken months of smaller of conversations with two larger conversations. We gave her some reading material that offered a different viewpoint than the hundreds of ‘trans-is-super-awesome’ vlogs she’d been digesting for several months. We interspersed lots of time and attention doing fun things as a family unrelated to gender identity. Things were going well until one day when she broke down because I wouldn’t buy her boy’s clothes. She told me she hated herself and was having suicidal thoughts when this started several months ago which is when she started to wonder if she was a boy. She says (and we’ve observed) that she is much happier now after making more friends this year. She watched the BBC documentary “Transgender Kids: Who Knows Best?” (link: https://archive.org/details/BBC-trans-kids). We (temporarily) removed internet access but provided instagram and tons of itunes music. Here are a few things we printed for her to read and gave her a folder to keep it in for privacy:
1. https://www.acpeds.org/the-college-speaks/position-statements/gender-ideology-harms-children
2. Trisha Tulloch and Miriam Kaufman. “Adolescent Sexuality,” Pediatrics in Review, January 2013, VOLUME 34 / ISSUE 1. (Only the subsection “Adolescent Development and Sexual Behavior” link: http://pedsinreview.aappublications.org/content/34/1/29)
3. Potentilla. ” April 22 2017 “A sinister mental trap”: One man’s journey back to himself,” (Only the middle portion of the subsection “The Curse of Trans” at link: https://4thwavenow.com/2017/04/22/a-sinister-mental-trap-one-mans-journey-back-to-himself/)
4. Jennifer Johnson. “Your Budding Daughter: Some Practical Suggestions for Parents,” link: http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/health/Your_Budding_Daughter__Some_Practical_Suggestions_for_Parents.html#ixzz4fkgFx8Hb) Subsections on (1) Breast development and (2) Sex Education
5. Selected information from PowerPoint slides by Michelle Cretella, MD, President American College of Pediatricians, Association of American Physicians & Surgeons National Meeting, September 24, 2016, ” Gender Dysphoria in Children:Science, Medical Ethics & Controversy” (slide content we used: Transgender and suicide: 90 percent of all suicide victims (regardless of identity) have a diagnosed mental disorder. No evidence gender dysphoric (GD) children who commit suicide are any different. Therefore, prevention = better treatment of psychological co-morbidities. 75%-95% of GD children resolve by adulthood when neither affirmed nor medicated. Majority of subjects were misdiagnosed as GID/GD; they were in reality only gender non-conforming (GNC))
6. Two minutes of a detransitioned girl’s video within: David French. “The Tragic Transgender Contagion” National Review, August 18, 2016. (link: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/439126/)
7. John Pavlovitz “If You Stick Around (A Letter To Suicidal Teens)” May 2, 2013. (link: http://johnpavlovitz.com/2013/05/02/if-you-stick-around-a-letter-to-suicidal-teens/)
8. Selected excerpts from Gender Critical Greens: “Gender is not identity” August 15, 2016 (link: https://gendercriticalgreens.wordpress.com/2016/08/15/a-feminist-view-of-gender-identity-politics/)
Summary 1
• children’s brains are constantly growing and developing neural connections and networks
o why they have such a capacity to learn
o why they have such a capacity to be creative
• adolescent’s emotional and reward centers of the brain are more developed than their cortical structures (which develop slower)
o adolescents are highly susceptible to making decisions based on experiences that elicit emotion and not reasoning out all the consequences
• brain not fully developed until approx age 25
• exposing yourself to new things (good or bad) that elicit an emotional response get hard-wired and rewire your thinking
Memory
• memory is constantly rewritten every time we remember it
• lots of data from studies show your memory can be easily influenced and altered
The repeated transgender-positive messages you’ve seen with no balance of viewpoints has lead to a gradual process of “brain-washing” that transgender is actually a wonderful experience
Transgender myths
• That your uncomfortable feelings about your body are due to some mistake that you were meant to be someone else.
• That doing hormonal replacement and/or surgery will actually make you a boy.
• That doing hormonal replacement and/or surgery will make you a feel better about your body.
• That doing hormonal replacement and/or surgery will only make you different on the outside. (It will affect your brain and your body on the inside too.)
Transgender truths
• If you change your body, You, [NAME HERE], will be gone forever. It’s identity suicide.
• It’s today’s youth’s way of dealing with overwhelming painful feelings.
• Your anxiety will still be there. In fact, it could be worse. (again, this is specific to her)
• Some people who change their bodies regret it and reverse it and their underlying issues are not resolved by any of those actions – only prolonged.
• You will never truly be a boy as if you were born a boy.
• You need to love who you are – mind, body and spirit.
• It is wrong to say gender doesn’t matter and girls can do anything that boys can do and then get surgery to become a boy so you can do boy things.
• Society is slowly embracing new images for girls – but it takes time – even generations.
Summary 2
• Approximately 75%-90% of children who have gender issues are satisfied with the biological sex they were born with by the time they reach adulthood
• Less than 0.3% of the population is transgender (FYI: 3% is gay or lesbian)
• The adolescent brain is not fully developed until adulthood (age 25) and is very neuroplastic (changes to brain resulting from changes in environment and thinking)
• Most adolescents hate their bodies and ALL are worried that they aren’t attractive
• Hormone chemicals and/or surgery will NOT make you a boy – you will be a neutered girl that has to shave (you can’t change your chromosomes)
• Approximately 90 percent of all suicide victims have a diagnosed mental disorder and there is no evidence GD/transgender children who commit suicide are any different – there is an underlying mental disorder for suicide
• Many children have been misdiagnosed as GD/transgender; they were in reality only gender non-conforming (GNC) to traditional stereotypes
• Impersonating the opposite sex may alter the structure and function of the child’s brain in some way because of neuroplasticity (changes to brain resulting from changes in environment).
• Children will face lifetime of toxic cross-sex hormones if medical treatment is chosen
• Any time you don’t feel like you fit-in or belong, that emotional pain causes you physical suffering and you want a doctor to cure it. The only cure is to heal the mind with love and acceptance of yourself. (this is one example from her particular history that we left in)
• People are mentally ill only if distressed by their thoughts that affect their lives in a negative way. This emotional distress is the illness, not thinking or behaving differently than the norm. Happiness and acceptance is the cure.
• You are a beautiful, smart, brave and strong female
• We love you no matter what. We want you to love yourself.
Lastly, I wrote 3 pages entitled “Let’s Consider this Scenario” that listed our opinion of how she came to this conclusion that she was transgender. It is very specific to our situation and our history – it is too personal to publish the full detail here. It was meant to be emotional. It went through her struggles for 2 pages and built into an emotional crescendo of a description of her pain and then it offered a better choice of love and acceptance and a message of hope. Here are some excerpts:
• You tried to figure out why you didn’t have a lot of friends.
• You made comments that if you weren’t skinny, tan and blonde, then you weren’t pretty.
• You compared your looks with others.
• You compared your personality with others.
• You didn’t like your comparisons.
• You didn’t measure up to the level of perfection that you had in mind.
• You were depressed and considering self-harming and having suicidal thoughts.
• You started starving yourself.
• You had looked online for help and answers about being so depressed.
• You wanted to know why and what to do about it.
• You found youtubers that came out as transgender.
• You found confidence in seeing how “brave” these people were.
• You felt like you didn’t belong in the regular crowd (mainstream)
• You wanted to be liked – at least by some people.
• You want to be admired – at least by some people.
• You felt rejected from the regular crowd/mainstream.
• You felt you didn’t belong anywhere.
• You thought maybe you belong with these non-mainstream people because you are somehow different.
• You decided you felt better thinking of yourself as strong and brave like a boy.
• You admired and wanted to be like the brave transgenders
• You figured that you hated your chest and that there was this option – of transitioning – that you could actually become this strong, brave boy.
• You feel more confident with this cloak of masculinity.
• You feel stronger thinking of yourself as a tough boy.
• You hated being a girl – it implies weakness and you didn’t want to be weak anymore.
• You wanted to squash everything about yourself – all that you know of yourself – all that was you – all that you hated.
• You hated your chest, you hated your [personal attributes of hatred here].
• You hated not feeling comfortable with other kids your own age.
• You were much more mature than them though. (our daughter knows she is very intelligent)
• You must have figured it out and now have a solution.
• You were trans and considering a double mastectomy and a life-long commitment to chemical modifications/medications
• You still hated your feelings – you hated your body, you hated your mind.
• HATE, HATE, HATE.
• KILL, DESTROY – either death or a totally different person than what you were.
• Those were your choices….
• You didn’t see the trap this was.
• It snapped around you.
You have a different choice.
You have a choice to accept the parts you don’t like about yourself for now.
You have the choice to see that the future brings all the promise it always had.
You have the choice to build on your strengths.
Everyone just wants to be liked and loved and respected and happy. Just like you.
Everyone feels “different” and “not good enough.” Just like you.
You deserve to see that you don’t need to change your identity to get what you want out of life.
You owe it to yourself to try to find yourself without rejecting parts of yourself or of rejecting others.
You owe it to yourself to allow yourself to really see that you are beautiful, you are strong, you are brave, you are smart and you will find your way in this world without rejecting it or yourself.
You owe yourself love, acceptance and patience – lots and lots of patience.
You owe yourself this chance – and many more chances
You can be happy
You can see that being brave is not changing who you are.
Being brave is coming as you are.
Being brave is opening yourself up to rejection – over and over again after going through the pain of it.
Being brave is failing.
Being brave is persisting.
Being brave is being you.
You are brave. You are strong. You are beautiful inside and out. You are smart. You are loved.
(best wishes to all)
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Wow– what an amazing response you have given your daughter! I think this will help many people in the same circumstance.
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Thank you so much for sharing that. I find it extremely helpful in determining things to say to my daughter and I know that the process will take months. You sharing has given me hope besides just ideas.
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I’m so happy to hear that we helped some people – it really warms my heart.
Here are links to references 5 and 6 (above links don’t appear to work).
5. https://www.acpeds.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/Gender-Dysphoria-in-Children-Science-and-Medical-Ethics2.pdf
6. http://www.nationalreview.com/article/439126/transgender-teens-parents-rapid-onset-gender-dysphoria-doctors
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Wow. Just found this. Completely amazing. I’m hopeful it will be helpful with my daughter. Thank you so much.
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What a lovely resource – thank you for sharing. 4th Wave should this be made into a separate blog post? As RGuts says very clearly, everyone is different and everyone’s reasons for feeling they are “in the wrong body” are different. There will be some children who will ultimately transition (rightly or wrongly), or simply need to work it out on their own, so some of us may have to stand back, love our children with all our strength and somehow live with the uncertainty it brings. Our daughter (a young adult) will not engage in discussion, so for the time being we are being patient and helping her improve her mental health, finding out if she has a diagnosis of ASD, and hoping that time and maturity will at least give her the tools she needs to find a good way of leading her life.
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Oh Wow – RGuts…
Thank you Thank you Thank you!!! You don’t realize how helpful this information is for so many who are going through similar issues… I am so very grateful. I may not use all of your info, but much of it will be very very useful. I can even share this with my therapist, maybe even my daughter’s too.
I won’t run out and use it right away, I will be careful I promise you!
I have done some of my own research – and have seen parts of this, but I love how you’ve prepared it. Way to go – you’re awesome!
Thank you so much!!
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Can we get the text of the Misery For Profit presentation LeftForum cancelled?
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Yes, please! I second this request!
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This is a letter I composed to my daughter. I’d like to give it to her to begin and change our dialogue of the past few months. I’m hoping she will agree to sit down with me and watch the BBC special that was posted here. I’d also like to watch Peachy Yoghurt YouTube vids with her. Let me know your thoughts or suggestions. Thank you in advance. ❤
Dear Emily,
I love you. Please always know that every single day.
You are a young woman. You are not a male born to a female body. Please understand that women and men can be a whole spectrum of things. You do not need to be put into a pink box or blue box. Some women like to do mostly so-called masculine things. Some men like to do so-called feminine things. This does not make them the opposite gender.
You can be the type of woman you want to be. We already know you are creative and intelligent. You have a fun sense of humor. You may have similar issues as me with depression. I think we can safely say you have issues with anxiety. Did you know that young people that suffer from depression and anxiety are more likely to identify as trans? I’ve also learned that young people on the autism spectrum are more likely to identify as trans as well as those that struggle with OCDs.
Then there is gender dysmorphia. This likely touches all teens at some time, however, the people I listed in the paragraph above are more likely to struggle with it on a deeper level.
Most, young people that identify as trans (around 80%) change their minds. Once they work through the “stuff” they either realize they are gay/lesbian, OR, they come to understand that being a certain gender doesn’t limit you to the pink box or the blue box.
I’ve been learning a lot about this online, and I would love to sit down with you and watch some things together. I think they would be helpful.
With Love,
Mom
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Dear unreal950,
What a great idea! I should have thought of writing to my daughter. So much can be conveyed eloquently by the pen rather than the mouth. Alternatively, once written, it cannot be unwritten or forgotten.
I would not state “You are a young woman. You are not a male born to a female body.”, especially not at the beginning and maybe not anywhere in your letter. I don’t mean to sound negative but that is exactly how your daughter will take it – negative. It’s combative to these kids to oppose them. In their minds, we are either 100% with everything they want (their idea of supportive) or we are 100% against them. There is no middle ground for a kid suffering from the trans disease.
Certainly, to heal, the realization that she is actually a woman will need to occur. I can tell you from our experience, telling our daughter this was very difficult for her. It sent her into a tizzy-fit every time. Trying to reason with someone who’s been convinced they are someone or something they are not is almost impossible until their anxiety and depression is under control.
I don’t know where your daughter is mentally. If you feel she is strong enough, you have to decide what is best.
We are currently working through things by trying to address her anxiety and giving her the information you want to give your daughter. We’re doing it in passive form. When my daughter accomplishes something she didn’t think she could do, I typically say something like “You managed and succeeded on your own as who you are right now, not as someone you want to be”.
We recently switched therapist. I researched this guy and talked to him multiple times to make sure he wouldn’t succumb to the trans cult. In our first group meeting, he asked my child what she wanted to accomplish. Her reply: “I WANT to take T and transition but I know my parents don’t want that and I live in their home… under their rules”. I almost fainted. One year ago, she would have been totally opposite – a combative, unreasonable child under the influence of the trans indoctrination. She still under the influence but I feel we are making progress.
We take one baby step at the time. Sometimes those baby steps result in her trying to convince me I’m not supportive and sometimes they result in tantrums – moments I think I’m going to call 911 and we’re going to the ER again (as we did when she had suicidal thoughts).
I didn’t intend to write a long post. I do want to give you something to think about concerning how your daughter might respond. If she responds negatively, the rest of your letter will likely fall on deaf ears. That could impact the progress you’ve made. However, progress isn’t likely unless you infiltrate the trans indoctrination. It’s a double-edged sword, as is healing from any mental illness. How you accomplish this is your decision. None of us know your child. We can only share our experiences and hope they benefit you.
Good Luck!
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Dear Mvrobin, thank you for your advice. I think you are correct. I’m going to go back the drawing board on the beginning sentences. Thanks for the luck. We need it here.
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I also changed it to the term “gender dysphoria. My brain is overloaded with all these new terms. I miss the uncomplicated times………..
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I find that we think it through more than they do (obviously?) and for them a lot of it is wanting to put a label on things. At my daughter’s school they had two FtM individuals come in to talk about gender for some workshops – one went by her female name, the other by a unisex name but they both expressed as female… not following? I wasn’t either. They were women who “identified”as men but “expressed”?(dressed and acted) as women.
It is like the world has gone mad.
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I find that the not arguing about it MAY be working a bit for us. I preface a lot of things with “I am not saying that you aren’t transgender, but I feel that this goes back quite a ways and that maybe the transgender issue isn’t the only thing going on. I understand you are uncomfortable but I want to make sure that we are taking the best care we can of you because I don’t want to see you feel unhappy like this.”
In our case my daughter has quite severe separation anxiety that predates any of this by years and years so I have that as a bit of “evidence” that this isn’t all just that she is a boy stuck in a girl’s body. She also said something about it being “Girl name” – I am gently trying to find out what she feels is wrong with “girl name” to understand why she would want to be someone totally different. It crossed my mind that some of these girls may really want to change who they are completely and this is being presented as the way to do it without being “crazy” or having multiple personalities.
It is so hard to know what sticks and what doesn’t, where and when this crazy ride will end. I am thankful for all of you posting, gives me hope and support I can’t find elsewhere.
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That seems like a good tactic. I hope it works for you and her. It is a sham that support is sip hard to find. How the heck did the transgender lobby get so big and powerful? And why is this conveniently lumped in with LGB? It’s practically considered against the law to try to have an open discussion about this as far as doctors are considered. What a huge disservice to or youth.
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OMG I was beginning to believe that I was the only parent out there who was thinking that this self diagnosis that my 20 yr old daughter made just doesn’t fit the person that I know and love. I’m just starting to read the stories and advice and honestly this website may have saved my life.
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Encouraging report of a U.K. conference about the need for more research and caution when treating gender confused children:
https://www.transgendertrend.com/hot-topics-in-child-health-a-medical-political-and-ethical-debate/
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Good to know that this disaster is finally being noticed by professionals in the field.
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hey I started http://genderskeptics.freeforums.net/ to try and make a forum for parents to talk about these issues w a more convenient format. I’m totally open to suggestions about how best to run the place.
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Hi, my friend recommended this site. My former spouse came out as transgender soon before our marriage broke up (we would have broken up anyway, he was a total narcissist and I was starting to get sick of it), and we have a 4-year-old daughter. Recently, our daughter started saying she’s a boy and using male pronouns for herself. Naturally, my ex jumped at this and thinks it’s “so interesting.” When we talk about it, the idiot just grins like it’s the greatest thing, doesn’t seem to understand my concerns here. If she is transgender, I will of course support her in the end, but that’s not the life I would automatically choose for her. And I’m concerned that my ex, a terrible attention seeker, will try to coopt this for yet more attention. “Look at us, the transgender family!” This is a kid who today started using female pronouns again, and told me that she’s a spider now. So I think my ex is getting really psyched for nothing. So I’m really happy to find this site and get to talk to reasonable people who are looking for some middle ground here. I worry about my ex telling her things and getting her all confused. I want her to figure these things out for herself over time, and not because someone is feeding her information. And she’s freakin 4! Her whole concept of gender revolves around who gets the cooler toys!
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Thank you 4thwaveNow for the new sections on research and resources! I think these resources will help many families who find themselves in this quagmire.
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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4301205/ Hi…. do you think this sort of thing would make for an interesting article based on what we know about the trans cult’s manipulative tendencies, how narcissist men treat women and prey on vulnerable people?
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