About

4thWaveNow was started by the mother of a teenage girl who suddenly announced she was a “trans man” after a few weeks of total immersion in YouTube transition vlogs.  (The daughter has since desisted from identifying as transgender.) After much research and fruitless searching for an alternative online viewpoint, this mom began writing about her deepening skepticism of the ever-accelerating medical and media fascination with the phenomenon of “transgender children.”

4thWaveNow has now expanded to feature not only the writing of the founder of this blog, but that of other parents, formerly trans-identified people, and people with professional expertise and experience with young people questioning their gender identity.

Parents, please introduce yourselves and feel welcome here.

From the founder and primary author of 4thWaveNow:

I created this site because mine is a viewpoint that is seldom publicly heard: that of a left-leaning parent who is critical of the dominant paradigm regarding transgender politics and treatment. My primary concern is children, teens, and people in their early 20s, particularly girls who are contemplating medical transition. While I may disagree with their views, I do understand that consenting adults have the right to do what they choose with their own bodies and minds.

Online, I have been accused of being “unsupportive,” even “abusive,” simply for daring to question whether lifelong medical treatment–injections and plastic surgeries–is the answer for every young person who has gender dysphoria. In my world, caring about, listening to, and lovingly parenting a child or young adult is not necessarily a synonym for unexamined “support” for everything the child says or wants. In fact, one of the main jobs in parenting a teen is, not coercion, but the offering of alternatives; discussing, and sometimes disagreeing.

It is my contention that the medical and psychological establishments are letting us all down in their rush to diagnose young people as “transgender,” then to give the message that medical treatment is the answer. Much of my writing now and in the future will focus on the adults who are pushing so many kids into extreme treatments. And I do consider hormones and surgery extreme treatment, if there is any possibility that something less drastic might be a solution.

If you are a parent looking for support, you’ve come to the right place. We are interested in hearing from parents, family members,  concerned professionals, and allies from across the political spectrum.  However, I am not personally in accord with conservative, religious-fundamentalist views about sexuality. I am a strong supporter of gay, lesbian, and bisexual people.

Please read blog posts carefully before asking questions or commenting. I will respond when I can to respectful input. I don’t have time to keep arguing the same points over and over again.

Most of the voices in the media and in medicine are in opposition to my views. I’m presenting an alternative.

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1,061 thoughts on “About”

    • I am the mother of a teenage boy who very suddenly told us he was gender non-binary about 10 months ago, He has since gone totally transgender and wants to socially present as a girl. He is dressing in more feminine clothing, wearing makeup and wants to be known as female at school. The school is being very supportive of his desire, referring to him with a female name of his choice and using she to refer to him in school correspondence. His father and I are unhappy with all this and think it’s related to his history of Asperger’s and social awkwardness. But I especially am having a lot of trouplbe accepting this whole thing. I feel like I lost my son. So far the mental health professionals he has seen, as well as the school faculty and staff, are totally on board with this change. They basically are going full force ahead treating him as a female. Our son never, I repeat never, mentioned anything about these feelings while growing up. If anything he seemed concerned about wanting to only wear boy colors and styles. This was up to about a year ago. Then he changed extremely suddenly at the age of 15. I have absolutely no support from anyone in the general community to try to figure out if he has an underlying mental health concern or if it is an outgrowth of being on the AS. I truly appreciate this site becasue I least know that others have difficulty accepting this change in their children and the lack of support for skeptical parents. I have tried to find support groups in our are (Richmond VA). but have been unable to find anything other than LBGT groups. If anyone in the Richmond area has a similar situation and would like to correspond or get together let me know.

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      • I am sorry you are facing this. I don’t know how these practitioners cannot be held liable for what they are doing to or youth. Public schools are falling in line with agendas that are far beyond their scope. This is not a world of unicorns and butterflies they are sending our kids down.

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      • Your story is my story as well. I am so frustrated by the fact that no one seems to see this as a problem. To support my child, feels like I’m supporting his leading a self destructive lifestyle and it won’t end well but I have no idea how to address this. I wish the best for you.

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      • This is exactly my family’s story, as well. My brother just came up with this out of nowhere.

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      • I am new here, so please have patience. My son(13) announced to his dad and me he was gay right before Christmas. Honestly, it didn’t come as a surprise and we were ok with it and told him this. Christmas Day he came to us and changed his story to say he was trans and to address him as Jessica. This child has been a boys lacrosse player for the last 5 years. 7th grade was quiet-this was his first year at his new school. I asked him if he had stayed at his previous school would he have these same feelings (trans to female). He said no because that school was so small that everyone was binary and everyone is the same there.
        We have started seeing a therapist who told us last week that the only reason she started seeing us is that my son identifies as a female. She will not give services to teenaged boys. I really want to change therapists but I haven’t been able to find anyone that is nearby (under a 45 minute drive).
        I am really trying to not be an alarmist mom, but other dynamics in our current family life are contributing factors to enrolling him into therapy.

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      • This is a reply to Cindy Slavick’s post, but applies to Korey Austin, Renoir, David, Sibling in need of help, Susan Zamecnik and anyone else looking for help. Please consider joining the Gender Critical Resources parent’s forum, where more than 500 parents discuss our children’s situations and alternatives to medically transitioning children and young adults.

        To join this group of parents, go to this link:
        https://gendercriticalresources.com/Supp…php?fid=24
        where you can view the (very small) public portion of the forum. If you want to join and access the many, many threads and join in discussions with other GC parents of trans-claiming children and young adults, click on “register,” which is near the top/left. You’ll need an email to register; your email will never be shown online but you may want to use an anonymous account. Also, you’ll probably want to use an anonymous forum name. Once you register, your account must be approved by admin, which usually takes anywhere from an hour to a day.

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      • Susan, thank you for your post above several months ago. Your story bears a strong resemblance to the experience we have been living with our 15 year-old son for the past 10 months or so. He too has AS and had never given us the slightest hint of any gender confusion until the Spring of 2017, when he advised us out of the blue that he was trans. It followed a period of social isolation and intense activity on social media and exposure to considerable trans propaganda and some unhealthy on-line relationships with adults, which we have put an end to. We also implemented an internet/social media fast for essentially all of last summer, but returned his phone to him in September, as we wanted him to develop relationships with peers at his new high school (he switched to a dedicated arts school to pursue his interest in music) and smartphones, unfortunately, seem to be considered “essential equipment” for teenagers these days.

        As we approach the one-year mark since this arose, we have been on a roller coaster of challenges associated with his gender dysphoria. He has been seeing a therapist with expertise in this area and ASD and takes a cautious approach. He is in denial of his ASD (which he had previously accepted, but never acknowledged to his friends) or considers it irrelevant to his gender dysphoria. This appears to be one of the barriers to his deeper self-understanding. Also, the black-and-white thinking associated with ASD and one of his special interests being the gender-flipping/bending world of anime seems to complicate matters further.

        He continues to move towards social transitioning, with the well-meaning, but ultimately misguided support of his peer group. he has “come out” to his peers, beginning with a small group of female friends at school, then implementing a name change at school and, most recently, by making an announcement on Instagram. My wife and I are growing increasingly concerned and looking for new ways to approach the situation, or even just to share information/resources with others experiencing similar challenges. We are deeply concerned that he has been drawn into a manner of viewing himself and his place in the world that is both inauthentic and not in his best interests. I would be pleased to correspond with you and/or other parents with similar situations about ideas, strategies or even just to commiserate/listen. While there are similarities across the range of young women and young men struggling with these issues, I do find that the challenges of males who wish to be female present some distinct challenges and issues. Also, the added complication of his ASD means there are layers of challenges that are difficult for most to understand.

        This is my first post and I will leave it there. I could go on and on, but, for now, I simply wanted to start the process of reaching out to someone going through the same sort of difficulty.

        Take care,

        Concerned Father (name to be revealed later in a more private context)

        Liked by 3 people

      • We believe our son has ASD (Aspergers Syndrome in particular) which is a major component to him being transgender. One component of Aspergers or ASD is obsessive compulsive disorder (OCD) which is where cross dressing can come into play. Maybe you can get treatment for that. My son is 25. So not much I can do now, but if he was still minor and at home, I would most certainly get him professional help.

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      • Hi fellow concerned father. Your story mirrors mine with my teen daughter very much with the rapid onset, ASD, social media emmersion, etc. Simply horrifying this exact story gets told/shared over and over again yet, by and large, there is nowhere to go for real, objective help. Have you read the book When Harry Became Sally or Transgender Children and Young People? Both very informative and well written. I’m 2 loooooong years into and happy to share / help anyway I can.

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      • Concerned Father,
        Another concerned father here. I wish I had good news or easy solutions for you. My son has been on estrogen for two years. He’s 29, so there’s nothing I can do about it. It still consumes large parts of every day and we don’t speak. I am envious that you have at least a modicum of legal input for him. I have none. It’s a race for me at this point to have as many conversations and relay evidence of the harms of this ideology. You’ve probably already come across the affirmative model, which has been embraced as the only humane option. Those running this narrative have no qualms using lies and manipulation to further their cause. Myself and many on this and other t critical sites have our suspicions as to why that is. Unfortunately there are many reasons that contribute and unraveling them is a daunting task. Maybe you’ll see or say something that can help. Every voice matters. I for one welcome you, though I’m sorry your son and family have to face this. I think our hope lies in the fearless questioning of parents found here.

        You may find this helpful.
        https://www.transgendertrend.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Transgender-Trend-Resource-Pack-for-Schools.pdf

        Liked by 2 people

    • I almost cried when I discovered this site today. It has been like living in a nightmare. My son announced that he was transgender about three years ago. No indication of any problems as a child other then he was always the nerdy brainy boy that the other kids made fun of. I felt that he might suffer from high-functioning autism but never wanted to label him because he was so high functioning- brilliant in fact. Several years ago his best friend committed suicide and my son spiraled into a deep angry depression. We sent him to professionals for help. A few years later he informs us that he is transgender. I am a physician which makes this all the more frustrating because I can’t get anyone to acknowledge that this new found transgenderism could be a function of his depression. Apparently I am a bigot for not wanting to accept that my son is now a girl. The psychiatrists and psychologists have all focused their attention an making him a girl and I am literally dying. So happy to find a group of people who understand the torment. Is this a group that I sign up for or do people just tune in and follow along?

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      • IMaureen Foster I am also in the medical profession and feel ashamed at how my profession is failing our young people due to fear of being called bigoted or transphobic. My daughter no longer sees anyone from the gender service but is seeing a psychologist from CAMHS re her anxiety, We, including the therapist, do not focus on gender rather on her emotions in general. At home we have tried not to react when our daughter has talked about being transgender though of course we have listened to her. We periodically talk about our concerns with regards to ‘treatment’ for transgender young people and I have shown her articles from this site including those from the brave desisters who have posted on here, I dont know if she is just trying to keep the peace but after 2 years of claiming to be male she says she no longer sees herself as male, though not female either, She is dressing and behaving ever so slightly more feminine and says she has no wish for any medical interventions regarding her gender. I am very cautiously optimistic. I firmly believe that given time and space the vast majority of these young people will accept their birth gender. The media frenzy has these vulnerable young people, who feel they do not fit in with their peers, believing they are therefore in the wrong bodies and that hormones and surgery will help them do so. They wont. They will exaccerbate their problems. They need treatment for their psychological problems, most suffer from anxiety or depression, and above all they need time and space. If he is agreeable your son needs a therapist who will treat him for his depression not his gender if you are able to find one. In the UK CAMHS services are more likely to do this but i dont know where you are living or how old your son is. I wish you and everyone on here all the best.

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      • This is really disheartening that a Physician can not get anyone to look objectively at what is going on. I have reached out to dozens of professionals in my own community and online. No one wants to help us explore where this very sudden interest in being a “girl” actually came from. My son is also very bright and socially nerdy. He often was uncomfortable around his peers. He actually was labeled “Aspergers” about about age 9. But never any mention of wanting to be a girl until age 15 1/2. We have been living with this issue for a year. The school (private, secular) is actually encouraging this. They use “she” when referring to him and use his preferred female name…even in our presence. This is so sad..I can not even describe how painful this all is for me as his mom. And no end in sight. I kind of feel like the world has gone insane.

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      • I am a child and adolescent psychiatrist I share a lot of the concerns posted on this site. I am also a second wave feminist and find it hard to understand when gender expression became so narrowly defined – for boys and for girls. Can anyone walk me through that?

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      • This is one of the benefits of internet support via lost teens supporting lost teens and looking to strangers for mentorship. I did it myself online when I was fitst diagnosed with Lymes disease. As an adult, I could take a step back and decide that wasn’t going to be my story. But these kids get themselves stuck in a very naive groupthink. It’s a perfect storm: low self esteme, suporting people who are suffering, identifying with them, getting attention for your “bravery”, memorizing rhetoric, finding something that your parents don’t know all about where they can be the educator, getting support from strangers, not being told by any authority that they just may have too wait and see and they could be wrong.

        And then there is a strong group of transgender grownups who feel that they have been hurt by society and are strongly pushing their experiences onto the youth, making it become threir narrative. There is a huge amount of money going into LGBTQ legislature specifically for transgender agenda. And then there is the “noble” cause of supporting anyone who is an underdog. The TQAQ has taken over the LGBI and some are realizing it.

        Well, that’s my take on it anyway.

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      • Lisa: I am a child and adolescent psychiatrist I share a lot of the concerns posted on this site. I am also a second wave feminist and find it hard to understand when gender expression became so narrowly defined – for boys and for girls. Can anyone walk me through that?

        I can direct you to the point at which non-stereotypical gender expression in children began to be treated routinely as a medical symptom.

        In 1994 DSM-IV introduced a diagnosis of Gender Identity Disorder to replace the diagnosis of Transsexualism in DSM-III. Here are a couple of extracts from the section on children:

        ‘In boys, the cross gender identification is manifested by a marked preoccupation with traditionally feminine activities. They may have a preference for dressing in girls’ or womens’ clothes or may improvise such items from available materials when genuine articles are unavailable. Towels, aprons, and scarves are often used to represent long hair or skirts. There is a strong attraction for the stereotypical games and pastimes of girls.’ [More]

        ‘Girls with Gender Identity Disorder display intense negative reactions to parental expectations or attempts to have them wear dresses or other feminine attire. … They prefer boy’s clothing and short hair, are often misidentified by strangers as boys, and may ask to be called a boy’s name. Their fantasy heroes are most often powerful male figures, such as Batman or Superman. These girls prefer boys as playmates, with whom they share interests in contact sports, rough-and-tumble play and traditional boyhood games.’ [More]

        From The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, 4th edn, DSM-IV, The American Psychiatric Association, 1994

        Source: http://www.geekbabe.com/annie/feature/dsmiv.html

        At about the same time the ICD-10 introduced a diagnosis of Gender Identity Disorder in Childhood, again with separate criteria for girls and boys. These are given, apparently in full, in the 1998 (5th) edition of the Harry Benjamin International Gender Dysphoria Association’s Standards of Care for Gender Identity Disorders, Part III, Section II: Diagnostic Nomenclatures.

        See Sections IV and V of that document for sections on the treatment of children and adolescents diagnosed under these criteria.

        Source: https://web.archive.org/web/20000824053222/http://www.hbigda.org:80/soc5.html

        Note: these were completely new sections in the Standards of Care. The earlier versions did not discuss the diagnosis and treatment of children and adolescents.

        The Harry Benjamin International Gender Dysphoria Association changed its name to World Professional Association for Transgender Health (WPATH) in 2006. The Standards of Care were revised in 2001 and again in 2011.

        Liked by 3 people

      • I wanted to reply to Jessie from Dec 1, 2017 as it applies to my daughter who recently decided she’s male. I don’t know how to reply to specific comments. Please advise. Thanks

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      • Maureen, also take a look at the comment just above your post. While this page is an open forum, it can be cumbersome to navigate. Please consider joining the parents forum as described above.

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  2. I’d like to offer an update that I believe will give hope to many parents out there: I posted here I believe last february or march, completely at my wits end, terrified for my daughter, and furious with her school. Long story short, it was the “thing” a lot of girls were doing at her school to say they were “trans”. She started saying she was “trans” last October (2016) out of the blue and completely unlike her. This was started with peers and highly encouraged by one teacher in particular, a social worker/counselor at her school, and somewhat even an assistant principal – I am not exaggerating when I say it seemed to be their mission to “turn” as many students as possible, I believe because it gave these adults a sense of being special, popular, heroes to “troubled” kids, all in all feeding immensely narssisistic personalities (of the educators and counselors in the current climate that completely rejects common sense and genuine safety and well being of students). Anyway, I already ranted about this a while back so moving on: My husband, myself, and a number of family members showed up at our daughter’s school (the school accused the group of us, ironically that our daughter didn’t have any support system besides the school), discussed our concerns, demanded our daughter had no further contact with the teacher and social worker/counselor. We also had lots of talks with our daughter about what was really going on, which was she felt like she didn’t fit in and this group of people found her and gave her a (really harmful) sense of belonging provided she conform to their norms. We talked her through this and about how to make better peer choices, what to do when she felt out of place, etc… Within a few weeks, we had our happy, healthy, fun, feisty, strong, creative, enjoyable, etc…. teen DAUGHTER back, who loved herself, her name, her identity, and all her previous hobbies and interests! Her self esteem returned almost instantly. I have held my breath waiting to see if she would go back to “trans” but I do believe now we have seen the end of it. She talks openly and even jokes about what an awful several months she had, she can’t believe she let those people talk her into trying to change herself (she is still especially angry with the social worker/counselor), and continues to move on with much more “normal” teenage issues and conflicts with her dad and I. LONG story short: PARENTS: follow you gut instinct. You know your child. Don’t let anyone else fill your heads with nonsense. Talk to your child, have a relationship with them where you can help without judging, find out what is truly bothering them and scares them, help them become their true selves. In this statement, I do want to include the very very tiny percent of children who truly are and have always been trans – they need to be their true selves too. The MAJORITY of these “cases” nowadays, though are brought on by political agenda and a society that doesn’t pay attention or give accolades to any person who isn’t a “victim”. Our children have been thrust into a truly awful contest in a challenge to see who is the most misunderstood, persecuted, special snowflake.

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    • Very similar story here. I wish I knew how many of “us” are out there. I am always hiding tears of joy when I see my DAUGHTER being herself – radiantly feminine and strong – doing all sorts of things gender conforming and not gender conforming and being happy! We have weathered this storm too.

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      • Thank you for the updates and so pleased that things have settled down for all of you.
        Terrifying how these children can be pushed – with mine it was by a psychiatrist and psychologist team at our children’s hospital who told my daughter that I probably wouldn’t support it so there was no need to tell me. We aren’t out of the woods by any means yet so I take hope from your stories.
        I feel for the kids who really are suffering from gender dysphoria and are being eclipsed by the number of kids trying it out. One of the teachers at my daughter’s school told me that they used to talk to the kids about self-harm but that backfired and became a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy (as in if they didn’t highlight it to all kids there were less kids doing it) and that she feels this is likely the same thing… they wouldn’t get there on their own.

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    • I believe this is the case with my daughter but she won’t open up and talk. We recently found that four of her small group of friends claim the same thing, that they are transgender boys. My gut is telling me that this is peer pressure related and a way that makes her feel accepted. She has very low self esteem despite how often I try to tell her how smart and amazing she is. This all started in October of 2016 for us as well. I’m scared and frustrated and I don’t know what to do. Growing up she never voiced that she thought she was the ring gender. I never saw any signs. This was a little girl who loved clothes and make up and going shopping with her Grammie. We never forced her to wear girl clothes and get her nails done, things she always chose. My inner Mama voice is screaming that this doesn’t feel right. I’m at a loss on how to help her. Any suggestions?

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      • We aren’t fully through it yet so I may not be the best source, but I don’t embrace or fight it. I also don’t ignore it, and make a small reference from time to time to let her know that it is still on my radar. She doesn’t want to talk about it at home from what I can tell, and while she is going by a boy name at school her teacher isn’t buying it either. We had talked about choosing a boy name for her last month and come up with one that is derived from her middle name and that she likes because it was gender neutral. I thought we were changing everywhere but then she went to school and told the teacher she didn’t feel it was the right name (frustrating!). What I feel (and the teacher too) is that she has put this name and persona out there and doesn’t know how to take it back. It gives her prestige at school and she can be someone else – someone not struggling with anxiety like she is.
        We went shopping yesterday and all she did was try on funky female clothes and pose in them. I don’t see a boy, sorry.

        Our new, wonderful psychologist told me not to fight it, but not to do any of the work for her and see if she advocates for herself. She changes schools next year, hoping that this passes when she is with a new crowd of kids.

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      • My daughter started this the fall of 2016 also. I honestly envy the families that are dealing with this with young teens. It seems they are more pliable to come back. She is now at college and lives in a lgbtq+ activism community. So kind of them to place her there. I don’t know how she will ever find her way back.

        This is a kid that looked likeTaylor Swift. So super girly, glitter, pink,sequins, perfect makeup, membership to Birch Box, into Coach…Now, no makeup, greasy chopped hair, oh and eyebrows colored in to look like a meme online. There are moments she’ll call and I hear my daughter then there are times I see this lost soul that the world is “celebrating” for her finding her “true self”.

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      • To Scaredmama: My daughter didn’t want to talk to us either. We only talked to her about it once a week and made sure we didn’t mention it at all in between talks. My husband and I would come up with a message for each talk and keep it super short (about 5-15 mins) and always started with a positive – noticing what she did right – how she was becoming an independent thinker and many other positives that we noticed. She even said that even though she didn’t want to talk to us, she always felt better afterward. In the beginning, the only messages were “keep an open mind and we love you no matter what.” We pretty much stuck with that for a couple months, but then as it became more routine and easy to talk, we began to show her different ways of thinking about it than what she had be indoctrinated into (and we told her this – lets explore different ways of thinking about it). The next message was that gender dysphoria tends to be transient for most people but the social and medical actions can last a lifetime. She was not suicidal at the time. The next message was that there are people who regret their transition and have to live with unwanted side effects. Eventually we worked up to talking out different scenarios with her from being transgender to the one that we knew was reality – that her anxiety led to depression which led her to look online for help and then got sucked into using her gender as the reason for her issues. It worked for us. Best to you and to your loved ones.

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    • I’m so glad to have found this! My daughter told me in June that she feels like she’s bi-gender (now she’s transitioning to male). She’s 19 and in college, so my legal influence over her is done. She has had depression and anxiety and was outcasted by mean teenage girls in middle and high school. She never showed the signs of “being male”. She was very girlie and liked boys. I am convinced that the new friends at college coupled with her mental issues is really what this is all about. I’m sad and scared. 😦 I hold onto hope that she will one day detransition.

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  3. A friend emailed this to me. Why can’t the issue be seen for what it truly is – a (mental) health issue, not a political one – in which case, all helpful research should be encouraged!

    Bath Spa University transgender research block labelled ‘astonishing’

    A therapist says he is “astonished” by a university’s decision to stop him studying people who decide to reverse gender reassignment operations.
    James Caspian wanted to write a thesis on “detransition” as part of his master’s degree in counselling and psychotherapy at Bath Spa University.
    He said it was rejected by the university’s ethics committee because it could be “politically incorrect”.
    The university said it couldn’t comment until after an internal investigation.
    Mr Caspian, a counsellor who specialises in therapy for transgender people, told Radio 4: “I was astonished at that decision.
    “I think that a university exists to encourage discussion, research – dissent even, challenging perhaps ideas that are out of date or not particularly useful.”
    He says he wanted to study people who had swapped gender and then changed their minds after coming across evidence of a growing number of people who regretted having the surgery and finding no research had been done into the subject.
    The university, formerly known as Bath College of Higher Education before gaining full university status in 2005, initially accepted his proposal but he struggled to find people willing to take part.
    He said: “I found it very difficult to get people willing to talk openly about the experience of reversing surgery.
    “They said they felt too traumatised to talk about it, which made me think we really need to do the research even more.”
    Better ‘not to offend’

    He amended his proposal – to include people who had transitioned to men and reverted to living as women but without reversing their surgery – and resubmitted it, but it was rejected by the ethics committee.
    “The fundamental reason given was that it might cause criticism of the research on social media and criticism of the research would be criticism of the university and they also added it was better not to offend people,” he said.
    According to the Times, it was rejected because “engaging in a potentially politically incorrect piece of research carries a risk to the university”.
    American transgender activist Riki Wilchins said studies on transgender people could have a “political undercurrent” and potentially have a negative effect on the way they are treated.
    “People have been launching studies that undercut transgender people’s access to surgery for decades now,” she told Radio 4.
    But Mr Caspian said older studies were out of date and the research was necessary “to help people”.
    He added: “The whole field has completely changed over the last few years.
    “The idea that we might use the information from the research I was going to do in a way that wouldn’t help people is completely wrong.”
    He is considering a legal challenge but is waiting for the university to conclude an internal investigation.

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  4. 4th Wave Now, I could not have made it through without your site and am eternally grateful. The work you have done is outstanding and you will never know what you have done and how many parents you have helped. My daughter read an online book called ‘Homestuck’ which she loved. From there the fandom was full of trans. She read and thought the gender ideology applied to her, which of course, it applies to everyone pretty much. She became depressed and lived in a Homestuck and tumblr world all the time. I realized she had changed and started looking at all her online viewing and phone activity. She was calling herself a transboy and my world went upside down. I spent days going online and crying because I could only find sites encouraging transition and praising these ‘special’ trans kids. I was online in a forum and someone posted a comment saying look for alternatives, this is not what it seems. That was enough for me to start looking and finally coming across the right words that linked me to your site. The cloud lifted and I found sanity and common sense. I followed what was posted here. I did not allow a name change or binder. I delayed using any tactic necessary. When she made the declaration to me, she was very sad and completely believed everything she had read. I knew it was coming, so I was able to be calm and neutral about it. I was worried about teen defiance, so I did not treat it like a big deal. I thought I would feed the victim mentality and push her further away. I found a Christian counselor who would be gender neutral and treat the anxiety and depression along with removing social media for a long time and internet for a few months. This lasted a year and half. It was long and hard, but I made sure every comment I made indirectly tested her ideas without being too obvious.

    She eventually moved away from the trans identification along with a few in her peer group at school. People may make fun of the hillbilly south, but many here have not swallowed the kool aid. I told the school counselor and she backed me up. I even talked to a local LGBT support who said wait and treat the anxiety. I was very fortunate she did not push the issue aggressively and kept it within her friend group. I think this made it much easier for her to let the identity fall away when it stopped making sense to her. She currently still has issues with anxiety, but now understands anxiety is the problem, not her body. I am still upset about the unquestioned support behind this movement, but once I explain to people its rooted in stereotypes, they are shocked.

    I do feel this movement is losing steam because there are just too many holes and the term has become too watered down to mean much of anything anymore. My heart goes out to all the parents who are dealing with this.

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  5. Stay strong. The ideology requires a narrow viewpoint, so as they mature, many will realize it does not make sense. Many of these teens are also quite obsessive and move on when they get tired of fixating on gender. It does require mental gymnastics to justify.

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  7. Hi All…..Need some help! Bad day on my page today! It had been pretty quiet the last few weeks from the other “side”, but today they have come out of no where on the attack! Could use some “likes” to anything or everything, some “shares”, some “comment” and some 5 “stars”! I’m trying very hard to keep it about the “blockers”, but my patience is wearing thin and I’m about to unleash on the whole Transgender Agenda issue! Thank you!

    https://www.facebook.com/Muttmere/

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    • Would very much like to help you! – Yet posting on FB is a public forum that is attached to my real name, and that’s just not something I can do at this point.

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      • Same here. People would start questioning why I’m interested and why I know so much about it. It would ruin all the trust that I built with my child if the word got out. She’d never forgive me and I cannot risk it. No one knows nor would anyone ever guess that this has happened to us in the last year unless I started posting or commenting about it in public. People think she was just more tomboyish last year and now she’s had a change of wardrobe to be more feminine/teenage-like (because she’s desisted).

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      • I most DEFINITELY understand those that can not reply! I would or may feel as you do if I were in your shoes! As I have said right from the beginning, my “fight” (though somewhat the same as yours) and quest (which somewhat differs) is a fight, I “feel”, I’m fighting somewhat alone, but I must start fighting now!!! Why? Because most that I see, here, and in many other places I have joined, are teen+! I love all those places, and have learned a lot. But I can not understand how this (transgender issue) went from private Adults, to young Adults, to Teens? And now CHILDREN? NO!!! I just say NO! There IS no ifs and or buts about it in “my” mind!

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  8. You should look into Mermaids ‘supporting’ an 11yr old girl on hormone blockers. Manchester area who’s foster carer is supporting this too.

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    • Nope. Walt Heyer (sexchangregret) is an outspoken Christian so it’s easy for people to dismiss whatever he says as religious bigotry.

      Similarly, Michelle Critella (louderwithcrowder) is head of the American College of Pediatricians, a splinter group of conservatives whose stances also include no adoption by gay couples, no abortion, etc. Again, easy for ppl on the other side to dismiss as right-wing Christian bigots, a hate group.

      I say this as one who actually thinks the ACPeds statement on childhood trans is a well-written, nonsectarian statement.

      https://www.acpeds.org/the-college-speaks/position-statements/gender-dysphoria-in-children

      But the mainstream media won’t take those people seriously due to their other positions.

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      • Interesting that it’s acceptable to discredit religious people, and no one else. Consider for a moment, the vast majority of religious conservatives around the world are not white and not privileged. Yet it’s openly accepted by white Westerners to discredit these conservative peoples’ way of life. Still, all of these parents on 4th Wave Now sound nearly identical to christian parents going through the same trauma with their trans identifying kids. I’m one of them. Hoping I can still be a part of this community, because I need the support and the great resources.

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      • I agree with you JL. I don’t understand why someone who espouses Christian beliefs is automatically dismissed as credible. What is the rationale?

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  10. I’m the sibling of a brother who came out as “transgender” a few months ago. This was a complete and utter shock to my whole family. He never showed signs of struggle with his assigned gender. My parents would buy him anything he’d ask for. He rarely played with me when I played dolls or dress up. He loved trains and rocks and all kinds of things. Now, for me, I’ve had my share of lesbian/bi friends (even one who was pansexual) and saw how my one lesbian friend always took on the masculine role. So, finding out years later that she became a he was no shock to me. I could see it clear as day. But, my brother saying all this nonsense was extremely frustrating. I know in my gut that he is not a girl in any shape or form.

    Before he “came out”, he was on the Internet 24/7 and rarely socialized with anyone. He never had friends and was very much a social outcast (which made me realize that I believe he is Autistic and not transgender), plus he was adopted and his biological parents had a bunch of mental illnesses in their family, like depression, anxiety, autism, etc…

    The Internet is good and bad, but I believe that his medical illness (autism) and the major support and stupidity of people egging on others to be trans, caused all of this.

    At first, I was in complete shock, so I supported it blindly, like most people. I had watched many trans YouTubers before all of this, just cause I found this interesting and different. I’m a straight female that has no problem with my gender, but I know what it’s like to hate my body and wish I could change features of it as a teenager.

    Anyways, I tried to be blindly supportive and I’d ask questions, but he’d be so mean to me and my family. He’d tell us that “we should know this stuff.” Or just bluntly say “DUH. What did you think?” How was I supposed to know everything about transgender problems?! It’s why I was asking. I wasn’t mean when asking either. I genuinely tried. But, the meanness got worse as the months progressed. After a month, I started to have a gut feeling (after the shock wore off) that this was either a trend or something was deeply wrong (mentally) with him. Nothing added up or made any sense. He just became more hostile.

    My mom, shocked as well, bought him girls clothes. He looked like a 16 year old boy trying to be a 12 year old emo girl. He objectified women and it pissed me off. The clothes you wear don’t make you a woman in any way. He doesn’t even try to act female. He thinks that just wearing clothes is enough. He has a unibrow, bad acne, and awful body odor that he won’t even try to fix. He never even asked about a bra. I remember when girls would stuff their bras to try and look more womanly or older.

    My mom is so mentally drained that she’s confused as to what to do with him. The hate and meanness are getting worse as the months go on. I have no idea how to deal with this because it’s split my whole family up and caused all of us to fight. I feel more like the parent than my parents. My dad just ignores it, as if nothing ever happened.

    We just took his “girls” clothes away and told him to just finish out the school years (2) as a boy. The teachers and psychologist just blindly support him because they don’t want him to commit suicide.

    I just want to get away. I hate him. He’s not the brother I once loved and enjoyed. Some evil thing has taken him over and he just demands that we accept it or else. He has no care about our feelings since day 1. It’s all about him. But I know that many teens are like that. But not this stupid.

    I don’t know what to do.

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    • take care of yourself. and your parents. i have had the same experience as you. it was 1968 and i was 12. trying to go through puberty questioning what makes a woman at a time in history when nobody was talking about this. it is very disturbing to a family. it broke up my family. we were never the same afterwards. i think it contributed to the early death of my father from a heart attack at 58. i tried to learn to live with it, but my brother had always been a very mean and cruel person. changing his sex surgically did nothing to mitigate this, and i had to distance myself from him as a her. ten years after surgery, my brother/sister was stricken with the effects of taking cross-sex hormones. massive strokes, embolisms, and multiple sclerosis rendered him paralysed, completely. thirty plus years later, he is still paralysed. i am the only person in my family who takes care of my brother/sister, who is in a hospital full-time with 24 hour nursing care.
      my thoughts are with you. take care of yourself first. your brother needs to be on his own, if he is old enough to be….he must be told categorically that his issues must not become your issues. it is hard, i know….but looking back myself, i wish my parents had just cut him loose to create a life of his own…you do not need this in your life, even if you think you can alter the course he is taking. he will mess you up with him….drive you crazy with his craziness. i have extreme PTSD from this situation in my family. i am 61 years old and it has taken years of therapy to sort myself out from the depression and suicidal ideations. if my brother can buy his womanhood, where did that leave me as a woman? big questions….many traumas trying to help him…he could not be helped. there are many underlying psychiatric diagnoses with cross-sex identified people. they hide under the cloak of this “transgenderism.”
      good luck and much love to you as you struggle with this…..

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    • StressedOutSibling, there was a Japanese study that 8% of those with Autism Spectral Disorder (ASD) identify themselves as transgender. Your brother may have Aspergers. Look it up on web M.D. it is a form of ASD. One component of Aspergers is OCD. I believe this is what my son has who has declared himself transgender. As parents, we totally missed this. He is brilliant (two college degrees), but socially was never quite there. This can cause a lot of anxiety and depression I learned.

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  12. Please help, I’m terrified and trying to keep it together. My 14 year old son told me today out of the blue that he has gender dysphoria. He has always been “boyish”, not into football/sport, but likes halo, call of duty etc Xbox games, and what we call his “nerdy” hobbies – magic the gathering card game, dungeons and dragons. He does spend a lot of time in his room or on the Xbox at home, but does have friends, all of whom have the same interests, and he socialises with them at school, but little out of school.

    He dropped this bombshell at 4.30 this afternoon and I have spent the last 4 hours looking at websites and talking to him. He clearly feels uncomfortable talking about it, but what I have got is:
    – his body isn’t right
    – He has felt not right for several months, and decided it was body dysphoria about a week ago after looking at YouTube videos and talking to other trans people online
    – He wants to wear girls clothes and make-up, but not as a boy, so in the future after transitioning.
    – He wants to speak to a counsellor so he can be diagnosed and start transitioning.

    I have:
    – not freaked out (somehow) , told him I loved him and that I want him to be happy, so if he is unhappy we’ll sort it out somehow
    – got him to agree that surgery is not an option in the near future, that it will be several years if it happens. That the whole process is a long haul thing.
    – tried to make docs appointment, got number for local counselling organisation to ring tomorrow
    – asked him to consider that it might be something else – body dysphoria?? Anxiety?? Depression?? He said definitely not latter 2, but wanted to know more about first. I couldn’t help, as I was kind of clutching at straws a bit.

    I’m so blind sided by this, we’ve always joked about calling him a nerd, as he seemed so comfortable in his own skin and not fazed by anything, so laid back he’s horizontal etc. There has been no trauma that I’m aware of, family life is stable, he says he’s not being bullied, he does well at school. But he seems so sure of this and with the lack of any trigger that could have caused him to latch onto this, I can only believe him. However I’m struggling with his complete lack of femininity both in dress, hobbies, actions, way he lives his life. When I bring this up he shrugs. I asked if he wanted to hang around with girls and do “girls things” ( no sexism implied, sorry, but everything he does is just so boyish) and he said not really.

    I’ve told my husband and he’s as shocked and confused as me. Where we are right now, is well, no-one’s dead and we’ll take one day at a time. But honestly I feel ill, not because of any issue with transgender people, really I haven’t. But because, well, he’s my boy, and I want him to be safe and well, and if he wants to change gender it’s going to be so difficult.

    Any advice gratefully received

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    • Do not meet with a therapist until you have completely vetted them. This will have to be family therapy only so you know what is going on unless you absolutely trust them. Get rid of online access unless you can see absolutely everything. My take is that the younger this happens the more influence you as a parent have.

      Advice from other parents are to ignore what you can and get them involved with other things in life.

      I personally refuse to use an opposite gender name and will not purchase boy clothes when there are perfectly non gendered clothes sitting in her closet. I will not do anything I view as dangerous to my child’s well-being. I will not support anything if she will not engage in discussions with us.

      I do not believe therapist are effective anymore as they obviously don’t know how to challenge this narrative.

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      • Excellent advice. This is much the same as what we have done and our daughter is gradually coming back to us. We lost her to this crazy confusion for a while there. She is relizing her feelings are more to do with anxiety than anything else.

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    • Annie, My wife and I are dealing with similar. We would be happy to talk with you privately. You can email us at : stormnewhampshire@gmail.com

      It was a deep grieving process when we learned about our son. He is 25 and nothing we can do, but we have lots of info we can share.

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  14. I have complete androgen insensitivity syndrome (intersex condition) and had non-consensual surgery, which resulted in needing HRT since age 14 – I’ve also been concerned about young people making such drastic decisions about their healthy bodies at such a young age. As a teenager, I could not appreciate the pain of infertility, which I experienced in my 30s.

    I have tried to highlight some of my concerns via Twitter, but had my account temporarily suspended and currently shadow banned. Is this a common experience for people raising concerns?

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    • Are you still suspended and/or shadow-banned? If you put your Twitter handle here we can raise awareness of it on Twitter. It shows how threatening trans activists find the opinions of a person who actually WAS “assigned a sex at birth.” So sorry about your experience. Would you consider writing a guest post for our site?

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  15. I am glad that parents have this sane space as a resource. My story is from a different angle, but my experience with being attacked and censored for sharing that story is chillingly echoed here. My book, Sex Changes: A Memoir of Marriage, Gender, and Moving On (St. Martin’s Press), covered my and my children’s experiences as the family who suffer the fall out of a middle-aged transition. At the time I wrote and published the book, I could never have imagined the climate that exists today: from the rush to medicalize children who express an interest in gender change, to the intense censure of anyone who dares to engage in an open discussion of the issues. At least parents have a platform such as this in which to support each other.

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    • Thank you for commenting here–and for writing that book. What happens to families after men transition is never talked about (unless the wives are fully “supportive”). Journalists won’t touch it.

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    • Another good book to read is Rene Jax, “Don’t get on the Plane”. Rene always believed he was a girl as far back as he could remember. He has SRS and has lived as a woman for over 27 years. He has now realized he was sold a bill of goods and his situation was that of disassociation due to some major abuse as a child. There is lots of good information in the book along with a history of how we got this far. I will buy your book too. Thank you!

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  16. In brief, I began to medically transition from male to female last year, and decided to stop after a month. I am interested in sharing my story with the readers of 4thwavenow, both as yet another story of how a young person figured out the truth about the modern trans narrative and to also elaborate about the medical dangers of medically transitioning. Regarding the latter: I work in the pharmaceutical industry as a research scientist, which has given me fairly unique insight into the what sort of dangers may be associated with taking hormones for years or decades.

    If you are interested in interviewing me, please reach out to my email, which I believe is provided. Do note that it is pseudonymous.

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    • Hi, rk2:

      I’m very grateful for your willingness to share your story.

      Our son was recently prescribed 300mg/day of spiro. He’s been taking it for a month. He’s never had health problems in his life, but since beginning taking this drug, he has been sick in various ways more days than not. A friend of mine who is a nurse said that this dosage is almost never prescribed except in serious, rare cases where the patient is constantly monitored. What I found online is that this dosage is only ever used for a few weeks, max. My son’s prescription is for a year.

      We are going to talk to him after Christmas (he doesn’t know we know about this) and I want to have my facts straight. Many detransitioned people say they may have exercised some caution had they known the facts that the gender therapists and doctors weren’t telling them.

      I’m leaving my email here in the hopes that you might contact me with something I can study in order to prepare for this talk. My husband and I have lived in a state of unrelenting fear and worry for two years, but we haven’t challenged him outwardly because we didn’t want him to shut us out. This, however, is a deal breaker. I’ve always said to my children that their choices are their own to make, but when their safety is in danger, I will intervene. I’m terrified, but the time has come to live up to my words.

      I wish you well and hope that you’ve escaped without serious health problems.

      Sarahlynnelli@outlook.com

      (Not my real name)

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  17. It was such a relief to see this page. Someone told me about this and I couldn’t believe it.

    I have been battling people for weeks and even more so the last two days after I posted my petition to STOP PARENTS AND MEDICAL PROFESSIONALS FROM TRANSGENDER CONDITIONING CHILDREN.

    Please take the time to read it:
    LINK:
    https://www.change.org/p/ohio-attorney-stop-parents-and-medical-professionals-from-transgender-conditioning-children

    I got on facebook a few weeks ago looking for something like what you guys are doing and found NOTHING so I created a group and a page NO PURPLE UNICORNS, mainly to let others see the other side of this and understand what we are doing to our children is, beyond words, wrong.

    I will follow and share everything that you have.

    Thank you so much for doing this. Until I was shown your page, I really was starting to think I was one of the only ones out there trying to stop this.

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  18. Comment: My husband recently came out,as transgender. We know for sure he has Major Depressive disorder and anxiety. He is currently on medication for. We have separated and he had moved to Ohio, but I am still gravely concerned. I would like to see if anyone knows a good psychologist and counselor in the Franklin Ohio vicinity that could help with his comorbid issues. His parents and I are desperate. He is not the least bit feminine and is heterosexual, which makes him even less likely to be happy transitioning.Any help is appreciated.

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    • Kathleen, I know this is late in the day, but I’d strongly suggest you reach out to Straight Spouse Network. They will probably have more resources for you than this board is able to provide. Good luck!

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  19. I’m curious, how many parents have reached out and talked to a transgender person? Or even another transgender young adult who’s closer to your children’s age? Would you want to?

    I also just want to say, I really appreciate this website – I think it addresses a lot issues many liberal communities won’t acknowledge and discuss. I personally believe that it’s so important to hear a lot of different opinions and ideas because ultimately we really want people and kids to be happy – and that’s not possible without a transparent, open, discussion where we can safely express opinions (even if they’re radically different).

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    • You would be surprised how many of us are liberal on so many ideas. But liberal does not have to mean throw all caution to the wind. I have however come too realise that the transgender redric that I read on my daughter’s tumblr has made me less liberal.

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      • Yeah, that was a generalization – from my own experiences, I know so many communities and people that consider themselves liberal that are very sensitive about questioning what might actually be helpful for children that are identifying themselves as transgender.

        So for example, I’m transgender and I have medically transitioned to a degree that I’m comfortable with but even I feel uncomfortable saying to these ‘liberal groups’ that maybe medical intervention isn’t actually the best way to go about this, you know? And this is just one issue that I feel like is being addressed here, that might not be addressed in these groups I’m talking about.

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    • Trans-activists ask us this all the time, assuming that we’re afraid of some big bad trans boogey-man (or woman) who exists only in our imaginations.

      Well, sorry to burst that bubble, but in my 10+ year “career” as a support group leader, I talked to dozens and dozens of adult trans people. Got to know a few of them fairly well, actually. Listened to them speak. Asked respectful questions. Even “educated myself” by going to Trans 101 AND Trans 102. I also came to meet many younger trans-id’ed people, both as a support group leader and as part of my children’s social circles. I know some today. I also know several “trans-affirming” parents today.

      The reason I am opposed to the trans-activist ideology insofar as it relates to children and teens is because I took the time to educate myself about it. To find out exactly how much of the “science” behind the movement is based on wishful thinking and surmises. I’ve learned that most of the theory, as it relates to children and teens, is purely hypothetical, although the impact it has on the lives of children and teens if anything but.

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      • Thank you worriedmom. You are the perfect person to reply to Tom. You have seen it from inside the support group world and have witnessed the disasters that unfold when transgender gets lumped in with and equated to LGB support.

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  21. “That cruel streak – the violence of looking away – has been a feature of American life since the nation’s founding”–this is from an article in The Guardian by Ed Pilkington on poverty in America.
    Love the phrase, the violence of looking away.
    How very apt for our situation of young people being transed, affirmed, and easily receiving life-altering medical treatment.
    So much complicity and indifference,
    Yes, the violence of looking away.

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  24. My daughter first brought up wanting to be male the first day of summer after 7th grade…so…2015. She had never expressed anything like this in her short 12 years. In fact, she hadn’t really said much about anything ever; and out of the blue, she sends her father and me a text saying that she’s felt this way for a “long time” and she didn’t want us to talk to her about it. Uhhh…Nope. Not gonna happen.

    So, I countered with “it is unfair to drop this on us when you haven’t spoken to us about ANYTHING for 2 years.” So we took a step back and she started therapy.

    Tonight I brought it up again because things kinda got back to a “normal” life and I was scared of the answer…well, she says she identifies as male, her friends call her by her preferred name, but she doesn’t want to do surgery or testosterone while she’s in high school. She does want to change her name before graduation.

    This isn’t about me, of course. If she’s really transgender, then fine. I love my kid no matter what.

    But I don’t think she’s trans and I can’t figure a way to broach my skepticism with her.

    I told her tonight, “I just want you to do well in school so you can get out of this state…and I want you to be happy. That’s it.”

    We’ve got a lot of work to do on this journey…and I’m trying to get passed my hurt feelings.

    Anyway…I need a community that won’t vilify me for my position with my child.

    Thanks for reading.

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    • My daughter (13) doesn’t want hormones or surgery either. I have tried to find out, without pushing too hard as she stops talking, what that looks like in the future. How does that play out as an adult? She is just going to tell people that she is a man, despite having a female body?

      I may have mentioned this before but they had people in at school last year to talk about gender identity. They were both biological women who identified as men but expressed as women – I don’t know how to follow that?! One kept her name, the other chose something gender neutral and they both had long hair and wore women’s clothes (they expressed as women) but wanted male pronouns (because they identified as men).

      I just don’t get it.

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    • I’m totally with you – your daughter almost sounds exactly like mine… except my daughter didn’t announce it quite the same way. But now – my daughter is 14, and it is very scary as she’s had ongoing mental health issues, along with the gender dysphoria…
      There seems to be (is) an epidemic, as she has friends who are doing the same thing.
      But thank goodness for 4thwavenow, as I doubt I would be handling this very well without this site! ❤️👍🏻

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      • Agreed. It’s nice to be able to y’all gender critically about this and not be called names. Lol

        I’m so grateful to be here.

        It definitely is an epidemic, I want to dial back her online presence…but I’m not sure about unringing that bell when things are so tenuous…yknow?

        I’m frightened for her and the path she’s trying to navigate. I’m heartbroken that she feels some type of way about her body and never confided in us…

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      • I feel the same without this site i wld feel so alone going thru this. My daughter is dressing like s boy and has cut her hair very short. I feel i have lost my happy girl. I feel very sad and lost with it all but glad i can come to this site and find others are going thru the same thing…

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      • Hi Natsblog. My daughter got noticably worse (more depressed) once she “discovered” she must be trans. It was a year ago tonight that she decided to tell her “close friends”, one of which is trans identifying and now on testosterone.

        Two weeks later her psychologist had her tell us which I told the psychologist would be very bad for her and would lock her in to her thought process.

        Hopefully your daughter is young enough to still be with the family as much as possible. And I would suggest a family detox from electricity if you can.

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    • Your story is identical to mine! The first day of summer, after her 7th grade year, two years ago, I saw some messages popping up on her MacBook about coming out and her desire to cut off all of her hair (I told her I didn’t like the style she picked out; that it was too masculine and wouldn’t look good on her; that I wanted my little girl to still look like a little girl, not a little boy). She told her friends that she was desperate, that she hadn’t “even come out yet” and I was already rejecting her. When I approached her about this “coming out,” I assumed she was thinking she was gay/lesbian. I told her that I saw her messages because they were out there for all to see, that I was sorry I read them. She clammed up and wouldn’t tell me what she meant by coming out. I told her to write me a letter about it. Well, fast forward two weeks and no letter. However, I found out the truth of her declaration to friends— she left a letter to me in her sketch pad that proclaimed she was trans, a boy, and she had been feeling this way for a long time. She wanted to be called a boy’s name and we could start referring to her in male pronouns. I was shocked! Never before had she presented as anything but a shy, creative, artsy girl. All of her pastimes and interests and friends were stereotypically feminine. Well, I took this route for the last two years — I’ve ignored it, spent more time with her supporting and funding her artistic pursuits, her obsession with yard sales and thrift store shopping, resale on her online store, costume making, drawing and oil painting, making soap and cookies, playing with her dogs, and basically doing things that really have nothing to do with gender. She lives in a genderless world of her own creation. Her dad and I have never spoken to her about it. It was only a year ago that I confessed to my husband about the messages and letter. It has been a very rough two years for me, only because of my hang ups and the fact I’ve had to let go of what I think a girl should be. I’ve had to let go of the dreams I had of sharing stories of guys, dating, dressing up, makeup, etc. all of that will never happen, and we won’t share that. I think her
      underlying anxiety and insecurity are the true cause of all of this trans/gay boi/ asexuality she presents. I think she has desisted from thinking she needs to transition; however, I also think she is very averse to presenting as an easily identifiable, stereotypical girl in public. I think she takes pleasure in keeping people guessing and calling her a boy. I have caught her correcting people who call her a boy, so there is that small consolation. I just know that it wasn’t until she made a bunch of super smart, activist girls at her school that she started the trans stuff. And there was a trans FTM in her small class of kids who started taking hormones as well, even though she really wasn’t close to this kid. Sometimes I still wake up with terror in my heart that she is saving money for a transition (she is obsessed with saving money), and even today she just wants to sleep and do nothing. I made the mistake of telling her last night that I really didn’t think her “look”
      was that fashionable or becoming for her. I have lost patience with the thrift store men’s baggy sweater,” Mr. Rogers look” she has been sporting for the last year. She is really so cute and sweet, and you’d never know she has a great figure because of all the hiding she does behind those ugly clothes. I read these posts religiously and every story sounds so familiar to me. I would have lost my mind, been hospitalized, seriously, had it not been for this blog! Thank God for 4th Wave Now!

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      • Again and again I’m seeing the same exact story, and I wonder if I’ve been “sleep writing” – as I see the similarities in our children. It’s unbelievable! I don’t know where you live, or if you can PM me – I would love to be buddies… and commiserate with you!
        Best wishes from another mom who is going through the same thing…

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      • Waiting4mybaby, so happy for you all that your daughter desisted! Great job on the part of your & your hubby!

        I would not be overly concerned about her choice in clothes. I have a middle school daughter who says the boys are so aggressive these days, she is asked out several times per week. Traditionally, as we all know, the girls chased the boys until they got in high school b/c the boys had no interest and/or no self-confidence. The Internet age has changed that and middle school boys are not what they used to be. (Heck, life has changed for all kids.) Your daughter is probably receiving a significant amount of unwanted attention, even if she’s not dressing like a girly girl. By dressing down or with boyish tones, she’s knowingly or unknowingly repelling constant attention that she’s NOT ready to handle. I recommend embracing her decision and let it ride until she’s ready to change it.

        All my Best!

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    • Keep with it, we are 2 years in to this ride, but I have hope once we fix her anxiety issues, and the happiness within, we will get her back….the waiting is tearing me apart x

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  25. I have read a wonderful article by a man who detransitioned after becoming a women in his early 20s. Third way trans is the we bsite He has been thru hell and back and has now become a psychologist. He has a very deep understanding of these issues. I love reading his articles. The key is acceptance….we would all like to be someone else and change the way others percieve us but its a very self detructive and alienating course to take…if our kids cld obly be supported to accept the things we cant change in life and focus on being the best person they can be with what they were born with. My daughter has a beautiful healthy young body that she can use to do anything she set her mind too but she hates her body and cannot accept that she is a girl.so she is crippled in her mind and cannot flourish

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  26. Finding this blog has given me the ONLY sense of hope anywhere within a million mile radius! Thank you!! So much!

    Like everyone else, I am dealing with the same gender identity issues with my pre-teen. It came out of nowhere. (Too much internet access is my belief, which is a devastating failure as a parent on my behalf). She’s about to start high school and wants to start as a boy and I am not onboard at all, however, to further complicate the issue, my husband is 100% behind her and I am not at all coping.

    I firmly believe my daughter is Asperger, and this is the real reason why she feels so differently about herself in the world. But before my husband and I have had a chance to explore this, the gender identity stuff exploded. Now I feel like I am running out of time.

    My husband and I are at MASSIVE odds over this. He won’t listen to anything I am saying, meanwhile, my motherly instincts are going buck wild!!

    What I really need is to be able to connect, face to face, with people who have transitioned from female to male prematurely and regretted it then transitioned back or families who have survived this.

    He is having a hard time (read: flat out refusing!!) to accept anything I find in writing on the internet. He has spoken to a Trans friend of his (an ACTUAL transperson, a grown up, fully matured person, who is NOT a confused angsty teen, like my daughter) who has provided recommendations with all this and so my husband is therefore not looking at anything else. He has all his coins invested in the information and experiences of just ONE person!!!

    Anyway….

    I am wondering if among this network, there is anyone I can connect with to talk about this face to face.

    I live in Brisbane, Australia.

    I realise I am sounding desperate (Well, I guess I am) however, I am very quickly running out of time. If anyone, anywhere could help in any way, to connect me with anyone I can actually meet and talk to face to face, I’d be eternally grateful!

    Thank you for your time and consideration.

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    • There is a tumblr girl who was transidentified and has aspergers named caseyjean. I think she is on Twitter too. You could read her blogs. She has youtube videos as well. I’m not sure how entrenched your daughter is into this but tread lightly on pushing things. Seems there has been more success with celebrating who she is than arguing on where she wants to go.

      I’d say get rid of the internet. And the younger they are three more pliable they are so there is hope.

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  28. Dear Friends,

    I have not posted in a while so wanted to share an update since things are beginning to move in (I am hopeful) a different direction. My girlfriend, Anastasia has a son, Silas who turned 7 at the end of December. You may remember that Silas’s other mom (Kari) decided he was a trans girl several years ago and began socially transitioning him at age 4. Gave him a new name (Lara) and registered him in kindergarten and in the pediatrician’s office as a transgendered girl. Only female pronouns were used. This all happened without Anastasia’s agreement or input. It became a done deal and all of Anastasia’s attempts to slow things down or turn them around failed. This was in part due to being in a so-called progressive New England town. Over the last year, I have gotten very close to Silas. He is a very bright kid who has begun to play the game between his two homes. He wears different clothes in different houses and knows that Kari will never permit him to wear so-called “boy clothes.” He has begun lying in certain instances to save himself from doing or saying the wrong thing. He is very male oriented and speaks often about being a dude and growing up to be a dude. He loves his body. His friends are all boys. He is very physical and drawn only to more male-oriented activities. This has ALWAYS been so. We use male pronouns with him and we call him both Silas and Mowgli. Kari and his school refer to him only as Lara and use female pronouns. Last summer, we watched the new Jungle Book movie and one night, Silas jumped into a fountain in our downtown area. Not having any dry clothes available, Ana fashioned a loincloth out of a scarf. We all remarked that he looked like Mowgli! The nickname stuck. He loves that name and I cannot help but wonder if it is not a relief to be free of the struggle between Silas and Mowgli.

    Honestly, there are SO MANY messed up things that have gone on – and continue to – with Mowgli that are too numerous to write here. Have any of you heard of or seen the book, “Sex is a Funny Word?” We learned that Kari has been reading this to Silas. He just turned 7! SIlas did attend a second follow-up evaluation at the Boston GeMS clinic (yes, run by Spack). Although I was loathe to bring him there, they actually did not ever say that he is a girl and did not even say he was trans. The diagnosis was (for the second time) “Gender Dysphoria, unspecified.” It was explained to us by Dr. Ken Zucker that this means his diagnosis does not fit all the parameters. Dr. Z. also explained that transgender is not a diagnosis, though you will often see it written as such.

    The biggest news is that Kari was served court papers a couple of days ago. Anastasia is suing for custody. I have long said to Ana that this is the “fight of our lives and the fight of our times.” I do not know what will happen but I know in my heart that Mowgli will never be free if we do not try our best to get him out of this mess. Anastasia has always asked to keep things open for Silas. She has never wanted him cemented into one identity at such a young age. ESPECIALLY when he is clearly so HAPPY to be who he is when he is with us. He is beyond delightful. But he is on the fast track to being majorly messed up if we do not bravely bring all of this out of the darkness and into the light for all to see. We will be petitioning the court to get a Guardian Ad Litem on board and he/she will be talking with many, many people. Anastasia has a vast community of people who believe Kari has created an abusive situation and will happily testify on behalf of Silas. Kari is not happy about any of this. She says she cannot understand why Anastasia would want to cause pain to Lara. REALLY??? Kari will never be culpable. She claims she has only followed Lara’s lead.

    4th Wave Now has been a friend to us. So grateful. Although Lara is younger than most of your kids, I know you are supportive and understanding. On that note, I am looking for cases that may be helpful for Anastasia’s lawyer to read. By the way, it took a long time to find her and we like her a lot. This is not an easy case to take on but she is willing. I have found two legal cases through 4th Wave Now – the one out of England involving a 7 year old boy who was removed from the mother’s home (this mom and Kari sound exactly alike) and a case out of Kentucky involving a mom (again) who insisted to the father (they were divorced) that their 5 year old daughter was now male and would be transitioned as such. Again, the mom was eerily similar to Kari. In that case, the courts awarded shared custody but made the primary residence with the dad and visitations with the mom. The courts recognized that the mother was at fault for pushing the trans identity. If anyone runs into any other cases like this, we need them!

    Despite the political climate where we live, Anastasia has three years’ worth of emails, texts, photos and videos, all portraying that Silas is not simply a feminine trans girl. In fact, no-one who knows him has ever seen anything to suggest that he was feminine at all. Kari has made many grave mistakes, not the least of which were posting regularly on Facebook that she believed was a private site – not considering that Ana might have friends on these so-called private sites. She has stated many things that will hurt her case such as, “If my daughter was fluid, I would be furious if my ex was trying to cement her as one identity. My daughter is NOT fluid!”

    So, that’s the update. Thanks for your good thoughts for our beloved Mowgli as we embark on the next scary ride. But we are so ready and it MUST be done.

    Warmly and with much gratitude,

    Annie

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  29. I am just starting this debacle of my 12 yr old daughter now saying she’s a boy. I can guaranty she is not nor does she even remotely grasp the concept of what she’s saying. She can’t even tell me why she feels she is a boy other than she’s “in the wrong body” When looking up gender dysphoria or therapists there is not a single one that does not condone or promote transgenders. Every thing I look at talks about how kids should be allowed to transition and do what they want regardless of anything else. This is the only page I found that doesn’t say yay!! Go for it let them be who they are!! I knew it was bad and that being trans is the cool new thing to do but seriously not a single website or medical site that calls is what it is anymore?!? How are we supposed to help our kids to not fall into this mess when there isn’t any help out there for us? I’m sorry but at 12 she has no idea of what she wants in life, who she is or will become or a million other things. Yet I’m supposed to take her to a therapist that will reinforce her random idea? Will encourage her to be her “true self” and take hormones and possibly destroy her body because being trans is cool? She literally just told me last night that she thinks she’s trans, never ever mentioned anything before. What the hell am I supposed to do, how am I supposed to help her when the entire freakin world is against me and there is no help, at least no professional help.

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    • yep – been there and done all that. It’s absolute insanity. Search this site, the gender critical forum and some UK and/or conservative news articles and you will find some advice. I am an independent, but the only information I could find at first was from conservative new sources (unfortunately) – let’s hope it changes soon as the public becomes more aware.
      My daughter desisted and I’ve laid it all out in several ways on this site and in the forum. There is hope, just keep bonding with her, remove internet and social influences that are trans-cheerleaders, and let her know some facts – i.e, that most people become happy with their born sex over time, that some people de-transition but some of the effects of the drugs are permanent, that her goal to become an actual boy is scientifically unattainable (can’t change your chromosomes), and other things that you think will resonate with her. But take your time and go at her pace and mostly just ask her to keep her mind open as to why she might be feeling this way – as well as try and figure that out on your own.
      Are her needs being met – does she feel like she belongs, like her presence and participation in her daily life is valuable, does she feel like she’s good at something, does she see a happy future for herself? Boost her confidence – that is the root for most kids – a lack of self-confidence that turns into self-hate that turns into wanting to recreate yourself as a new and better person.
      Best wishes.

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    • I feel your pain Lorry. I live in NH, but for anyone interested, there is a good psychologist in the Dallas Texas area. Dr. David Pickup. He will help.

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  30. Hello,

    I recently gave testemony against a transgender rights bill in the NH state legislature later this past Wednesday. I quoted valid statistics of 40-50 % commit suicide after having surgery and 1 in 10 succeed.  Another study in India showed that 2/3 commit suicide as the result of a break up with their lover and some other varied reasons (not discrimination as many).  I did not say this and have it on authority, from talking with a transgender, that only homo sexuals date transgenders because they can hide behind that their lover is a woman in public.  When they have the surgery, the lover will break up in almost all cases because they are homosexual and they don’t want a woman.  This is a big trigger point for the transgender.  Normal heterosexual people will not date them and now the homosexual community will not date them.  As a result, life gets even more lonely after surgery.  Think of this adding to their despair.

    After they have the surgery, when they realize it did not solve their underlying issues, the despair goes deaper because now they realize they just permanently mutilated their bodies.  No going back at that point.  I pointed out that it is almost always trauma due to abuse that leads to disassociation of who they are that are the main underlying causes.  By legitimizing who they are, the rights bill will lead to preventing these folks from getting real help for the trauma due to abuse.  I get most of my info from ex transgenders who have had surgery and had regrets.  I personaly know 4.  3 had surgery and 2 have attempted to commit suicide on multiple occasions.  3 said that they thought they were woman as far back as they can remember.  3 had suffered abuse.  I lack info on the 4th.  Pretty close to statistics as I see it.

    There are more details I gave, but the audiance was primarily 80% transgenders and their supporters.  Funny,  I was talking with the legislative committee, but afterwards, it hit me hard that my message was for the transgenders there and that some of them would be helped by what I said.  I started with that my 25 yr old son has declared himself transgender and I deeply love him (which I do).

    It is likely the rights bill will pass, but I think I at least got a compelling message out and if at least one transgender there has second thoughts, it was all worth it.

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  31. Hi our 14 year old daughter informed us 6 months ago that she believes she’s transgender. We (my wife and I) handled it fairly calmly to begin with then I think we both realised it was just nonsense.
    There’s never been a single hint of it and even now she has to constantly correct herself when she does something “girly” and she tries to cover it up.
    Thankfully I found a website here in the UK called “Transgender trend” and it was nice to know we aren’t alone in wanting to not accept this.
    Now after finding you it’s given me even more determination to not be swayed into believing this out of hand, the instant affirmation that everyone seems to want to give my daughter is scary. From her school friends to her school teachers there seems no-one is willing to ask a question.
    I know my daughter is not a boy and I’m thankful for your blog.

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    • Chris, take control of this situation now. Don’t be like us. We’re all suffering as are our children. Had we known kids were loaded up with such bullshit, I’m sure there’s not a single person here who would not give almost anything to turn back time.

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      • We’re meeting with the school on Wednesday to put our point across however I do think we will move schools. My daughter will hate us for it but I have to do something to stop the total acceptance she is getting from everyone at school
        Are we doing the right thing? Who knows, I just know I have to do something

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      • Hi Chris. I’m glad to hear you’re meeting with the school. As another commenter already mentioned, TransgenderTrend has recently published a resource pack for schools. You can download it here: https://www.transgendertrend.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Transgender-Trend-Resource-Pack-for-Schools.pdf

        Perhaps email it to the school’s admin, counselors, your child’s teachers, etc., or even print out a few copies to bring with you to the meeting.

        The teacher spreading false, unscientific junk throughout the student body should be stopped. They might as well be teaching kids that the earth is flat, babies come from a cabbage patch and the moon is made of cheese. Even if the school has some sort of feel-good affirm-only policy regarding transgender students, this does not excuse them from teaching kids proper biological facts. Certainly school administration will have to agree on this point if nothing else. Rest assured there is no scientific basis for “born in the wrong body.” Masculine girls are still girls; feminine boys are still boys.

        If you feel inclined, let us know how the meeting goes. Best wishes.

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      • Totally agree. Don’t wait to take what you may feel is drastic action. If I had to do it all over again I would have home schooled with no casual internet access. I, like all the others here have lived or are living this nightmare.

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      • So, we met without the school and the deputy head looked sideways at me and said “I’m afraid I have to disagree with you, this really is a genuine thing that happens to some people. They are simply born in the wrong body.”
        As exasperated as I was to hear this there was little point arguing as her mind was made up and she would’ve only seen me as intolerant.
        The only positive to come out of the meeting was that they say their stance is to tell any girls feeling this way that “ they should keep their options open and not be too hasty to label themselves and that they should wait before making a hasty decision”
        I haven’t taken my daughter out of the school but I don’t know what I should do so no progress really

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      • What they do not understand is the destructiveness of moving forward as trans. Does one make the same argument with taking drugs? Hey, they make me feel good or better when I take them. So why not keep going forward taking more drugs? It is clear that everyone understands the destructiveness of this, but fail to see the same with trans. I guess suicide rates if one in ten and attempt rates between 40-50% do not matter.

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      • So 3 day care workers get arrested for giving youngsters gummy bears with melatonin, yet a public school gives a 16 year old trans F to M testosterone shots without the parents consent. Where is the logic and sanity in this?

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  33. I am beyond relieved to have discovered this site. I have a 16 year old daughter who was diagnosed with Aspergers 2 years ago. She was a gender conforming child, however since about 2nd grade had difficulties relating to same sex peers due to not being able to pick up subtle social cues. She also liked things like video games and Pokemon rather than the more typical “feminine” interests of her peer group, leading to bullying and being ostracized. We eventually had to homeschool her starting her 5th grade year. Going into 8th grade she expressed the desire to return to a school setting in order to make friends. We enrolled her in a small, private school thinking that would be the better option due to sensory issues she struggles with (large crowds, noise, lighting, etc.). By 9th grade she was expressing discomfort with her body as puberty really set in, and began to isolate and become more involved with online communities as she felt more comfortable there than with face to face social interaction. It quickly spiraled into “I think I’m asexual” to “I think I’m gay” to where we are currently with her stating she is neither male nor female and trans. In short, she is very confused. Any disagreement or caution on our part is seen as non affirming at best, hostile and transphobic at worst. As parents, we have received no support at all from doctors or counselors for voicing our concerns. She is currently seeing a new counselor and I am hopeful this one will at least be receptive to our input. It’s so nice to have found out that we aren’t the only parents dealing with this!

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    • Hi Karen, you are not alone here. My recommendation is to candidly ask your childs counceler where he/she stands with regards to transgender and if he is of the gender affirming approach, run from him!

      My son had very similar experience to your child. I wish we caught it early. He had good grades and we never had any behavior issues. So he flew under the radar. It all came out when he was in college and he did not tell us until after he graduated. Not much we can do to stop it now. Personally, I think hormones and surgery for this should be illegal. We are doing our kids a great disservice by allowing this in our country.

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  34. Hi all….I have not been here in awhile, but the last 3 months have been fighting vigorously on Twitter. I have been following you (4thWaveNow) there, and fighting with you. My Twitter name is NoPubertyBlockerForChildren @Muttmere1 ….I will be doing a YouTube video at the end of the month about Puberty Blockers and ROGD and would like permission to mention this group? No stories or such, just the “group” name? I would have asked on Twitter, but there was no “send message” option!

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  35. I would like to respond the Concerned Father, who commented on my Oct 2017 post. As you said our stories are remarkably similar. Our son was about 15 1/2 when he announced his idea that he was gender non binary. Soon after it switched to being a “transgender girl”. Just like you it came out of nowhere and completely caught us off guard, This announcement followed months of social isolation, being dropped by his girlfriend, and taking Accutane for cystic Acne (can have severe depression as a side effect). Oh, and the requisite tons of time on social media sites. His dad and I have known for some time that he was socially different and had been told he was probably Aspergers at about age 9. We took our pediatrician and school counselor advice and took him to a transgender specialist psychologist for help. That was followed by another “specialist” psychologist and psychiatrist in our area. Basically we got no where fast. All they told us was to accept this sudden change and figure out how much we would allow him to explore the gender change while still at home and in high school. The faculty and principal at his school also encouraged him to use new pronouns and use a female name at school. We were told that it is school policy to to do what the child wants and to support his gender identity.

    This is nothing new. This same scenario seems to be playing out all over this country and the world. I must say I was extremely naive starting this process. I mistakenly thought the health professionals would look deeply at his ASD diagnosis and other events that may have triggered this sudden interest in changing gender. Despite how mush history and background I told the mental health folks, no one seemed to care. This is your son now: learn to deal with it. If you can not deal with it you are not a caring parent and are denying unconditional love to your kid.

    After wasting time and money on these Gender Affirming therapists I finally found a counselor in our city who is interested in kids with ASD and how they cope with adolescence. He saw this wonderful woman about 5 times. I thought we may be on the right track finally to getting inside his head and helping him sort this all out. But a few days ago he told me he will not go back. He doesn’t need counseling he said.

    Bottom line is I have been living a nightmare for about 15 month now, I firmly believe our son is caught up in a VERY strong social trend with extreme political overtones. I feel at a loss now what to do about any of this. If you , or any other parent on this site, wants to continue to correspond privately let me know.

    I am at my wits end and extremely sad about how this has intruded on my family. God Bless

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  36. If anyone would like to support Dr. James Caspian’s right to research and speak about the clinical downsides of Trans, namely by discussing his work with many who have de-transitioned and suffered depression as a result of transitioning, here is a link to his crowdfunding. He can’t continue his case unless he meets the target.
    https://www.crowdjustice.com/case/free-speech-matters-round2

    Thanks in advance for any support you may be able to give.

    T M Murray
    Author, Thinking Straight About Being Gay: Why It Matters if We’re Born That Way

    https://www.authorhouse.co.uk/Bookstore/BookDetail.aspx?BookId=SKU-001017796

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  37. When surveying FtMs, I tend to find that they are highly autoandrophilic. See e.g. https://imgur.com/a/kk00p

    This suggests that “ROGDs” are actually just the mirror image of AGP MtFs.

    I don’t exactly expect you to agree with this take, so I’m curious what you think of these findings. Would you like to comment on them?

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    • I think there is some useful information here but want to caution that your (very small) sample size and subsequent analysis of results misses critical aspects that appear, from the conversations I’ve had with detransitioners and desisters, to be central to many natal females initial awareness of themselves as transgender.

      “Actually just a mirror image of AGP MtFs” demonstrates a clear lack of understanding of girlhood, female puberty, and sexuality. While some young women express feeling turned on by various fantasies about themselves in a male sex role, most often, these fantasies are related to stereotypical ideas about male/female sexuality, which isn’t at all the same as target attraction to self as other, which is the foundation of AGP.

      Every single young woman I’ve spoken to first came to think of herself as a boy after decidedly NOT wanting to be seen as a girl. For many, that came about in (early) puberty and wasn’t triggered by sexual fantasy but by dread at her body developing into an adult female form. Are you aware that almost 90% of young girls hate their bodies? These statistics need consideration what analyzing any aspect of girlhood and female sexuality: https://www.statisticbrain.com/body-image-statistics/

      In a recent study, 94% of teen girls said they’d been shamed for their bodies. The study further found that “70% of male respondents are either body positive or neutral”: https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/the-shocking-results-of-yahoo-1332510105509942.html

      In conversation after conversation, what I learned is that many of these young women have internalized a picture of female sexuality that comes directly from contemporary porn. A female is someone who gets ejaculated ON, not someone who orgasms. A female is submissive, desires pain and humiliation; she is a tool to be used by males for *their* pleasure.

      I’m curious, have you ever read The Second Sex? There is much there that will enlighten you as an outsider to female sexuality. Camile Paglia’s first few chapters of Sexual Personae may help with these nuances as well:
      Chapter 1: http://docdro.id/3hszDmi
      Chapter 2: http://docdro.id/dLn0C75

      Your analysis also completely disregards aspects related to social contagion. It is undeniable that for many young natal females, there is an aspect of “coolness” and also, sadly, a rampant spread of ideas that claim that if you’re X, Y, Z, you must really be a boy.

      The high rate of Yaoi fandom in trans-identified natal female populations is also worth noting: for a young girl who doesn’t want to be used as a “cum dumpster,” Yaoi art/fiction has many understandable appeals for many girls, especially those who are uncomfortable seeing themselves in a stereotypical female sex role.

      Finally, it is important to note previous research that found lesbians, especially, often develop their sexuality later than heterosexual peers. Citations here: https://4thwavenow.com/2016/01/25/the-surgical-suite-modern-day-closet-for-todays-teen-lesbian/

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  38. Well said Brie! The main thing that appears to be different in natal girls vs natal boys who are trans-identifying is that Many Roads Lead to Trans for girls. This may be true for boys as well as we learn more about them.
    Many preteens and early teens are grossed-out by sex. This is the population where the most increase in trans referrals has taken place. It makes more sense that the trans-identifiers fear sex (hetero or homosexual sex) and find this as a way of opting out of the 24/7 in your face media obsession with sex. This fits with my daughter much more soundly and with comments that she’s made (age 12 at trans ID – now desisted at age 14).
    The many roads, or factors, that lead to trans identification in girls can include adherence to rigid gender roles at a time when acceptable social behavior is at its most narrow point (you get immediately criticized if you wear a bright pink shirt as a boy in middle/high school or have short hair as a girl), wanting to be accepted in peer groups but not fitting in or being excluded, not living up to their desired perfection of their body image – especially in today’s world where kids are continuously updating their social status and managing their looks and image online, umm – hating their changes to their bodies during puberty (remember these boring old facts from our childhoods??), actually having body dysmorphia, anxiety – social anxiety or other generalized anxiety, OCD, autism, gifted ability, Asperger’s, the attraction of a social justice cause, the immense online support and connections one can make in the trans community in an instant, and let’s not forget – fear and worry about being gay for those who are gay or questioning and the general disapproval of being gay in that age group!
    I don’t believe that “turn-ons” are the real factor for the rise in girls thinking that they are boys. The trans-identifiers in your private study may have never really thought about those kinds of questions (in your survey) prior to trans-identifying. Once you believe you are trans, cognitive processes change and neuroplasticity allows for rewiring of all those complicated cortical functions over time!
    Turn-ons have to be one of the most environmentally influenced and dynamic motivators/behaviors there is! Also, the population of young adults (presumed as I didn’t see age data) on the sites where your respondents were located might reflect a more deviant population. It is certainly not representative of the current tidal wave of trans-IDers. In addition, these young adults may be at the height of their sexuality! And their sexuality has been influenced by years of believing they are trans and thus you can’t determine correlation with onset of trans-ID let alone dream of any cause-effect relationship.
    (I do support your right to pose questions and try to find answers – just keeping it real here.)

    Liked by 2 people

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  39. Hi everyone! I had a video made of my story that was released yesterday. I also got suspended on Twitter for having a “hateful Header”! Terrible timing for them to happen at the same time. Fighting Twiiter to get my account back, but here is the link. I had a few links added to the end of it and in caption under it, but you have to “read more” to see them. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbqYLHt4H-E&feature=youtu.be Feel free to share!

    Liked by 1 person

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  40. Just wanted to share with 4th wave folks a recent story from Politico NY which discusses a case that sets a very bad precedent for requiring health insurers to cover surgeries for non-binary folks.
    “COVER ME — An official at the state Office of Temporary and Disability Assistance last week overturned an insurance company’s decision to deny coverage for a breast reduction procedure to treat gender dysphoria in a Medicaid recipient who does not identify as male or female. The decision, which ends a fight that’s lasted more than a year, addresses a burgeoning complication as the acceptance of transgender and nontraditional gender identities rises and those people seek medical care for their unique health needs. The case revolved around whether the state Medicaid program’s regulations on gender dysphoria treatment was exclusive to transgender people, or also included gender nonbinary or nonconforming individuals. http://otda.ny.gov/fair%20hearing%20images/2018-5/Redacted_7510067L.pdf

    I wonder if I can get my health insurer to cover the cost of removing fat from my thighs and hips if I claim I am non-binary and women typical have more fat in these areas. What a slipper slope.

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  41. Hi moderators. My name is Tim and I am a student from the University of Chester in the UK. Would it be possible to post a link to my research study here on your forum? I appreciate that this is a place for parents who have transgender children and who may be looking for support and so I do not wish to intrude, however I am interested in the psychological wellbeing of such parents. Please let me know if this would be appropriate or if you need further information. Thanks. Tim 🙂

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  42. Hello everyone. My name is Tim and I am a PhD student at the University of Chester. My research thesis is investigating the psychological wellbeing of parents and guardians whose children show gender variant behaviour. If you are such a parent, I am interested in your feelings, experiences, and wellbeing and I invite you to take part in my online research study.

    For more information you can contact me on tim.cartwright@chester.ac.uk or simply click the link below.

    https://chester.onlinesurveys.ac.uk/parentpsychflexwellbeing

    If you know anyone who may be interested in taking part, e.g. parents, partners, friends, please forward this message to them.

    Many thanks. Tim. 🙂

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    • Hello Tim,
      I wish you well with your studies but I think you may find that the list of support organisations on your introduction page will be a massive red flag to many parents on here.

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      • Hi ScaredMum. How are you? Why do you say the list may be a red flag to many parents? Would appreciate any feedback or suggestions. Thanks. Tim 🙂

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      • Hi Tim. Those organisations are not objective sources of support and information. Parents on this board are worried that their children have been caught up by social contagion, or are suffering from something else which is manifesting itself as gender difficulties. Or they are autistic. They think that whilst there may be a number of young people who will thrive on artificial hormones and removal of body parts, many will not and are being denied decent therapy to get to the bottom of their problems.

        Look up Mermaids for example. Compare their campaigns with the advice given by the Tavistock GID. Ask why the NHS info page has removed Mermaids as a source of information. Find out what PFLAG are doing (I believe there’s a blog post here).

        That’s why we congregate here. It’s not because we need psychological support and re-education to come to terms with the fact that one of our kids was “born in the wrong body and is becoming their authentic self”. It’s because we think there is a damaging regressive ideology at play here which is teaching our kids that their bodies are wrong and need to be fixed in order to conform to stereotypes.

        Liked by 4 people

      • Yes, totally agree with you on the list of support organizations. It was the reason I decided against participating in this.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Um yes, he cannot be serious? These are the organizations that cheerlead trans all the way. Affirm & do not ask questions.

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      • Hi Jay. Is there something in the list of organisations that you feel is unwelcoming or unsupportive? If so please let me know for future reference. I would be interested to know why it may put parents off from participating. Many thanks. Tim 🙂

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      • Hello ScaredMum, Jay, and Missingdaughter. Thank you for pointing this out to me. First of all, I see what you mean when you are talking about social contagion, etc. I have learnt a new phrase here today, ROGD. So am I right in understanding that the parents on this forum are unsure of the general policy of simply giving young people hormones and possible surgeries as if this will “fix the issue”? I can understand why for any parent it is vitally important that their child is given proper support and help to get to the root of issues. Would you say that groups like Mermaids and PFLAG are more likely to simply suggest the use of hormones and surgeries than a full discussion of what is going on? I can see why that would be an issue. Please forgive my lack of knowledge of this. I do not for one second believe that being transgender is pathological or that the only way to help transgender people is to give them hormones and surgery. I imagine good support from counsellors, etc. and family members goes a long way. I hope you all get the help and support you desire for your children. Tim 😊

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      • Hi Tim,
        Thanks for engaging. There is a desperate need for solid, unbiased research in this field, so it is good to see you here. But if you haven’t realised what a very toxic political and social issue this is rather than one of treatment then you really need to read around a little!

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  43. Been awhile since I last posted….this is the worst roller coaster ride of my life. 2 years ago our 13 yr old daughter came out as gay and trans….she had never shown any signs of this before, loved dresses, dolls, ‘girl’ things. It’s been a two steps forward one step back. Counsellors, psychologists, psychiatrists….all agree she has anxiety issues, depressive episodes, ROGD.
    In the past year she has started dating another FtM teen, who she thought was a boy when they first met,( I just see a girl trying to be a boy. – their parents are allowing hormones soon, one our children’s hospital in Melbourne Australia approve).
    My daughter is this persons boyfriend, and he is my daughters boyfriend….confused? So that makes them gay males in 15 yr old girls bodies?
    Just a few weeks ago, my daughter wore mascara and hair clips, but got angry at me when I said she looked pretty… she nearly bought a dress in a thrift store, but changed her mind, saying she was ‘more of a pants man’. Gets very aggressive if I mention the dangers of hormones….arhhh
    Her current psychologist was a former psychiatrist at the Tavistock clinic in the U.K., and gives me some hope….geez I wish this nightmare was over xxxx

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    • Notyourdestiny, I am sorry to hear about your situation. The teen-girl-gone-gay-male seems to be increasing (as an identity).
      I am amazed that any adult, especially the professionals entrusted to care for the young & confused, would give any credence to these delusions by affirming this identity.

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      • Thanks, it’s so good to have like-minded adults to talk to. I wish we all lived close by and could talk over coffee…I think my friends and family are sick of me going on about it! So sending cyber hugs instead.

        Liked by 1 person

    • I feel so much for you having been through this recently. My daughter has thankfully now desisted and identifies as female again but it was hard for her to say she had changed her mind having made such a big deal coming out as trans. She started wearing mascara and doing other little feminine things but i learned to play down my excitement at these things as it made her angry. I would compliment her if she looked nice but not make a big deal of it. I had always maintained that i did not think she was male though accepted that she did and i did talk to her of the dangers of hormones etc. Not often, but periodically. As a parent we must advise against dangerous treatments even if our children dont like it. Its part of being a parent to steer them away from dangers where we can. Left to discover who they are for themselves most of these girls will find their way back. Keeping your nerve and keeping them away from therapists who want to put them on the trans pathway are crucial. I wish you all the best

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    • Hi Notyourdestiny, if you feel you have no one to talk to about this or simply would like to visit with like-minded parents, consider joining the Gender Critical parents’ support forum. Follow this link: https://gendercriticalresources.com/Support/forumdisplay.php?fid=27 and click on “register” in the black bar near the top. Choose a screen name that doesn’t reveal any of your personal ID information. You’ll need an email to register, then may have to wait a bit to access the members-only section of the forum (as opposed to only the public forum), as an admin must first activate your account. This usually takes anywhere from an hour or two to a day. Some people prefer to use an anonymous email to join, but whatever email you use, know it will never be shown or published on the forum. You’ll find lots of support there from parents in the same situation as you.

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    • In the past year she has started dating another FtM teen, who she thought was a boy when they first met,( I just see a girl trying to be a boy. – their parents are allowing hormones soon, one our children’s hospital in Melbourne Australia approve).
      My daughter is this persons boyfriend, and he is my daughters boyfriend….confused? So that makes them gay males in 15 yr old girls bodies?

      This is apparently quite common. I used to find it baffling until I came across an excellent post on Tumblr by a woman who used to identify as a trans gay man.

      In order to make sense of her post it is necessary to be aware that lesbians, particularly younger lesbians, are now routinely harassed, online and off, to have sex with heterosexual males who identify as ‘lesbian’ transwomen, or at the very least, to express their openness to having sexual relations with transwomen. The harassment is intense, and often comes from their peer group, as well as predatory transgender males and transactivist culture in general.

      This is from the post by ‘femalestranger’, who says of herself: ‘I am a butch lesbian who identified as a trans gay man (and then nonbinary woo-woo trans gay man adjacent) for something like 7 years. …

      As mindbending and backwards as this seems when you first realize it. Trans gay men are the only identity for women not actually required by anybody to have anything to do with dick or to claim to be open to it even hypothetically, because the transgender theory does not position cis men as oppressed and in need of validation, only trans women. So trans gay men are free to exclude cis gay and bi men from their dating pool because they are cis, and straight men because they are straight, and they are also free to exclude trans women as long as they also agree to exclude any biological female who does not also identify as a trans man.

      It’s bizarre, but it’s also just what happens because women are conditioned from birth to live in a world defined by men’s terms and contortion themselves to wherever they can manage to fit in. Gay trans man is the place where lesbians can fit in, according to this gender theory. …

      Saying I was a gay trans man was like a cheat to technically be open to men, but really not wanting them to call my bluff. …

      What ended up happening is that I finally stopped being ashamed or afraid of loving women. I don’t know how that happened except that I just met someone right.’

      The whole post is worth reading.

      Liked by 1 person

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      • Thanks, Artemisia, for bringing that link. Important insight from a number of directions

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  44. Hello. I am new to all of this after my just turned 13 year old suddenly announced that she is a boy after a few months in middle school. This is completely out of character to who she has been her whole life, so we are caught up in research and the best ways to react. We thought we were doing well, but today she was screaming at us that she “is a guy” and insisting that we refer to her as our son, sobbing as we were telling her we are here for her and love her no matter what, but we won’t do that. She went to her room crying, but then came out carefree, intereacting with the family for the evening, which seems to be the pattern after these intense conversations.
    We are at a loss for next steps. We looked through her YouTube history from the past 6 months and found she had been focused solely on this issues for hours a day. We now monitor and limit her internet use, but can’t un-do what has been done.
    We keep emphasizing she is free to explore who she is as far as her sexually and belief systems (she has also decided she is pansexual and an atheist) but that we don’t feel at her age that we should support her desire to transition. This is what shuts her down, where she calls us all the names and accuses us of not allowing her to be her true self.
    We are scared about her returning to school at the end of the summer and going right back into the environment that we feel fanned the flames we are trying to put out.
    This is a whole new world to us, and I appreciate any support. Thank you.

    Liked by 1 person

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    • RubyDawn – Puzzled – I’m glad you found us! It sounds like your daughter is experiencing the same kind of socially-triggered rapid onset dysphoria many of our kids also experienced. It also sounds like you’re doing what many of us did: supporting her exploration but holding the line with medicalization.

      The most important thing you can do to help your child, IMO, is allow her to make any desired changes to appearances that don’t require medical interventions: let her cut her hair, take her shopping for “boy” clothes. Had my daughter asked me to use a new name, I would have.

      The outbursts are hard, for both of you. It is important that you hold in your mind the narrative she’s been fed: if your parents don’t support your transition, they’re invalidating you, they’re horrible transphobes, this is violence against you.

      She believes that. She’s been reading/watching account after account of suffering brought on by (mostly imagined) invalidation from parents and others. These kids feed off of suffering, unfortunately, it fills some need, some lack, for an authentic identity.

      Help her find other ways to individuate and form her identity. For my daughter, it helped a lot to recognize that females still lack bodily sovereignty throughout much of the world. Recognizing that she already was a member of an “oppressed class” helped her start to untangle all the ways girls might come to think they’d be better off as boys.

      Get out together and get your bodies moving. Hike, dance, climb, play, swim. Go camping. Lay on the ground and look at clouds and stars. Make the natural world more evident in your day-to-day lives. If you can afford to, go traveling. Take off with her on a journey.

      Talk about these kinds of things with lots of other women. Talk about puberty and their own feelings of bodily discomfort. Talk about how it felt to move from childhood to being seen as female/woman/sexualized being. She might not want you to talk about these things with her, but bring women around her and talk to them within earshot. Find lesbians to hang out with. Find female-only spaces.

      If you have the resources, I would consider not going back to school in the fall. I know that’s an extreme suggestion but it will be very hard for her to think through all of this objectively while she’s being pressured by friends.

      Sasha Ayad’s website offers some excellent resources. She has an email newsletter you can sign up for as well: https://inspiredteentherapy.com/blog/

      Sending you strength

      Liked by 1 person

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      • Thank you. I appreciate any direction. She has cut her hair and dyed it green, and we supported all of that. We have told her she can go by one of her middle names, one of which is a gender neutral name. I took her shopping for longer shorts. She danced in the rain with her siblings, and is on a fossil hike right now with her siblings and my husband/their dad. She is volunteering a lot this summer and has some camps, and we are camping in a few weeks and then taking a family vacation. She seems so carefree and happy, and then has these outbursts that throw us.
        I have talked a lot with her about how puberty hit her hard and fast and earlier than her friends, about being uncomfortable in her body, etc. She listens but doesn’t say anything.
        School is a big issue for us. She has expressed wanting to go to a new school next year. Unfortunately our son is starting at this school in the fall and it is a big transition for him and his friends. One of his teachers from last year is moving to this school, and he has been preparing all of last year for this big transition. I don’t want to pull him from his friends and his teacher for his first year of middle school that he is so nervous about, and logistically we can’t figure out how to have them at two different schools that start and end at the same time. I was advocating for her to use the district’s online academy for her last year of middle school, which has a physical class once a week, but she is adamant that she doesn’t want to learn online for a year, and I am not sure isolating her and having her in front of a computer all day is the best idea. So we are stuck with that department and it scares me!
        And yes, what she thinks about us and how that community portrays us makes me so frustrated. That is so hard for us to be portrayed that way.
        I appreciate all of your advice and will read over it again as we try to get our footing with this. Thank you.

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  45. I just want to reach out an “electronic” hand to those who are sad, afraid and lonely like I am when you look at your son or daughter each day and worry what the future holds for him, her and your family. We don’t know what to do do and the stakes seem high each day you are dealing with this. Our job as parents is to be the calm in the storm for our children, but it often feels like we are in the storm and, on our bad days, like we are contributing to the storm. I don’t have answers but please know you are not alone. This site has been a rock to hold onto when things start to feel hopeless. It just does not feel right that this is becoming so common among our girls when we spent the last few generations strengthening women’s rights and trying to open our society so that men and women don’t have to fit old stereotypes. It feels like a step backward in a weird way.

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  46. SO happy to find this group, three long years after my adorable, quirky, feminine, then 15-year old ASD daughter, under the influence of approving gay and “trans” friends, the internet and the whole credulous zeitgeist, decided that she was a boy. I am with the many parents here who believe that our children are complex, amazing people who are expressing various conflicts and issues in the form of gender dysphoria. In short, gender dysphoria is a symptom, not a core truth of who they are.

    We’ve gone along with a few things in the name of being respectful of my daughter’s self-expression. The short hair, the intermittent efforts she makes to wear male attire (baggy tee shirts and really ugly men’s shorts that she got at a thrift store), introducing her to new people by her male name. It is weird though, because more than half the time, she dresses and looks like a girl (she refers to this as dressing in “drag” but often prefers it). I will not get her a chest binder because I can’t believe they are healthy. No to using the men’s room in public places (ick!). And definitely no hormones, surgery or any other medical interventions.

    Luckily her therapist agrees with me. Both of us feel like, while it’s important to keep my daughter’s trust, we are not going to become part of the “trans-industrial complex” that is all about “transitioning” kids the minute they say they are uncomfortable in their bodies.

    My daughter just turned 18 last week. Her best friend/”boyfriend” is a transgender kid whose parents have completely gone along with the whole program—putting “him” on testosterone at age 16, getting him a double mastectomy a few months ago. Two things about this. One is that this kid does not seem one bit happier or any less depressed and self-hating than “he” did before. If anything, he’s gotten worse and worse. And now, after the surgery, where does he go from here? What will he blame his unhappiness on?

    The other thing is that my daughter’s friend is a big influence on my daughter. She speaks approvingly of “going on T,” or getting “top surgery.” For the time being, I completely hold the purse strings, so neither of those things is going to happen. But I worry about it now that she is 18, or whether this other kid could help her get testosterone illegally, etc.

    Anyway, on the bright side, my daughter and I had a long talk about the whole topic the other day. I tried to impress on her that I love her, that I know and see her in a really deep way, and that I KNOW this gender thing is not core to who she is. I also told her that, while I liked her “boyfriend,” I thought he was deeply troubled and that his “transition” had not made him any happier. Weirdly, she kind of agreed with me about all of it. Since that day, she has been seeming happier, more connected, wanting to spend more time with me and her sister.

    I don’t know what to make of that but I’m going to keep trying and keep holding the line. Finding this group and learning that there are other parents in the same boat and resources out there for us, has been a great boost.

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  47. Hello. I am writing a novel in which the main character is a “desister” — a girl who identifies herself as a trans boy at the age of 11-12 and then reverts to seeing herself as a girl at the age of 15. I would be very grateful to hear from people who are willing to be interviewed to help me do my research for this book and to improve the character’s authenticity. The novel is set in Amsterdam, which is where I live, but I am willing to travel to the UK if someone is unwilling to talk through Skype, Messenger or WhatsApp or on the phone.

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    • Well, my son is a trans girl. However, my wife just visited her primary care physician who recently had a patient, trans boy, who confessed they only reason she was claiming to be a boy was because she wanted her breasts removed and a hysterectomy because the breasts got in the way and she did not want her period anymore. She was using transgender as an excuse. That added a whole new twist.

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  48. Dear 4th Wave Now Family.

    It is time once again for me to reach out to all of you and give you an update on my partner’s son, Silas who is 7. I know our situation does not fit many families on 4th Wave Now who have teenagers but I still think the situation with Silas is relevant to today’s climate of activism and coercion and pushing. Silas was socially transitioned by his other mother when he was very young (4). She jumped on the idea that he was a trans girl and he went to kindergarten as a 5 year-old trans girl named Lara. The whole situation for the last few years has been untenable and heartbreaking for my partner, Anastasia, Silas and of course me. 4th Wave Now is one of our Bright Lights of resources and support and again, although there are not many families here who have young children, it’s the only place we have that feels truly safe except for certain clinicians and individuals who believe that our situation with Silas is very messed up. We are now in litigation and Anastasia is suing Silas’s other parent for sole legal and physical custody. We have a guardian ad litem on board who is investigating everything. I like her. I think she will do a fair and thorough job of looking at this story. Thankfully, she is not in the activist circle and is coming at this with neutral vision. That helps a lot. We are also at the stage of needing to locate some expert witnesses for trial. We have consulted with Ken Zucker several times and so far, we have also reached out to Dr. Alice Dreger, Dr. Eric Vilain, Dr. Anne Fausto-Sterling, Dr. Jack Dresher and Dr. James Cantor. Dr. Vilain did not write back. Alice Dreger very kindly wrote and said she is not experienced in expert witness trials and suggested Dr. Cantor. Anne Fausto-Sterling who wrote the article “Pink and Blue”, also said she has no experience in being an expert witness and suggested Dr. Jack Drescher. Dr. Drescher wrote us back and said he could potentially help but also said that he would have to agree with whatever the child psychologist came up with. Not sure if that could backfire on us? If he has his own expert opinion, why would he need to go along with anyone? As you can imagine, child psychologists have not necessarily been Silas’s/our friend over the last few years because the other mom is so obsessed and driven to convince everyone that her son is a daughter. I don’t need to tell you know how the story goes. If someone is in that camp, then they don’t look at you favorably and tell you that you should go along with it. Silas’s other mom also uses the suicide threat. People tend to buy that hook, line & sinker as well.
    So, if you were us, who else would you contact in trying to find some decent expert witnesses who are more along the lines of science? The confounding fact in Silas’s case is that he actually is NOT gender dysphoric. He said several years ago that he felt like a girl inside and that was the end of it. This was in the wake of a hugely traumatic break up between his parents (read: trauma). He has never had gender dysphoria. He goes by Silas with us and our surrounding community of many people and very obviously identifies comfortably as male. Of course he us confused! He began lying this year depending on which parent he was with. His other mom has treated this like a more extreme case for child who is depressed and gender dysphoric. How can we argue this intelligently? I believe that we can but not without a lot of help. I want to contact Dr. Debra Soh and I want to ask all of you if you have any other people you recommend we contact to be an expert witness? We are willing to go the extra mile and fly experts to New England where we live. I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again. THIS IS THE FIGHT OF OUR LIVES AND THE FIGHT OF OUR TIMES. Our fight for Silas is your fight too. He is too young to know how dire this is. Thank you all for standing with us. Please help us. Thank you!

    Annie and Anastasia

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    • Hi A&A, I wish I had something more concrete to offer, but all I can think of is perhaps to contact Kara Dansky aka the “gender critical lawyer.” I believe her focus may be more on helping maintain sex-based protections for women and girls in today’s identity politics climate, however, she just may be of help in your situation, or perhaps know of someone who could help you. Here’s a link to her contact info: http://onethousandarms.net/contact/

      . Nest of luck, and thanks for the update.

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    • have you contacted dr ken zucker again? he may be able to help you. please accept my support. remember, you do not stand alone, but with 10,000 behind you, to steal a quote from maya angelou.

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      • i want you to know that my moniker, sisgendered, is in reference to my status as a sister to man who had transsexual surgery in 1975. i have been around the phenomenon since i was 12 years old. i have struggled to understand it with the changing language that has come along. i have studied it since 1968. so i am the sis who became gendered by others. before the term gender was even used by researchers to describe this whole thing! sex change operation. that is how it went. i wondered, as i reached into puberty, what it meant to be a woman if womanhood could be bought for several thousand US dollars in Colorado. those days i faced this issue alone. nobody to speak to about it, my family was broken by it, my friends were completely ignorant. how could i even mention it? i fell into a deep depression. i did not want another sister. i already had one. it is an experience that i suffered alone. today, people are still suffering it alone. but please know that you are not alone.

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      • Dear Puzzled. Yes, very familiar with the story about the boy in England. In fact, that child’s story and his mother’s involvement and Anastasia’s son, Silas are so uncannily alike, it could have been written about him. We gave that story to both Anastasia’s lawyer and the guardian ad litem.

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  49. Dear Sisgendered. I cannot tell you how deeply moved I was and am to read about your life growing up in your family. I cannot fathom what it was like. But I understand alone. I’m so grateful that you are here. To offer your voice and your compassion and I know it might seem like it’s too late but we are here for each other to carry and bear witness to the pain. Thank you again and again.

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    • together. never let the naysayers get you down. there is something very wrong with the movement that says that a perfectly healthy body can be wrong. that is the craziness of all this. the undoing of all we know to be science. the undoing of common sense. the undoing of sanity….stay strong

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