4thWaveNow was founded in 2015 by Denise, the mother of a teenage girl who suddenly announced she was a trans man after a few weeks of total immersion in YouTube transition vlogs and other trans-oriented social media. Denise’s daughter Chiara has since desisted from identifying as transgender and in 2019 cofounded an organization for desisted/detransitioned women, the Pique Resilience Project.
4thWaveNow founder Denise and friends.
In early 2015, after much research and fruitless searching for an alternative online viewpoint, Denise began writing about her deepening skepticism of the ever-accelerating medical and media fascination with the phenomenon of “transgender children.”
4thWaveNow has now expanded to feature not only Denise’s writing, but that of other parents, formerly trans-identified people, and others with professional expertise and experience with young people questioning their gender identity.
Readers, please introduce yourselves and feel welcome here.
From the founder:
I created this site because mine is a viewpoint that is seldom publicly heard: that of a left-leaning parent who is critical of the dominant paradigm regarding transgender politics and treatment. My primary concern is children, teens, and people in their early 20s, particularly girls who are contemplating medical transition. While I may disagree with their views, I do understand that consenting adults have the right to do what they choose with their own bodies and minds.
Online, I have been accused of being “unsupportive,” even abusive, simply for daring to question whether lifelong medical treatment–injections and plastic surgeries–is the answer for every young person who has gender dysphoria. In my world, caring about, listening to, and lovingly parenting a child or young adult is not necessarily a synonym for unexamined “support” for everything the child says or wants. In fact, one of the main jobs in parenting a teen is, not coercion, but the offering of alternatives; discussing, and sometimes disagreeing.
It is my contention that the medical and psychological establishments are letting us all down in their rush to diagnose young people as “transgender,” then to give the message that medical treatment is the answer. Much of my writing now and in the future will focus on the adults who are encouraging so many young people to pursue extreme treatments. And I do consider hormones and surgery extreme treatment, if there is any possibility that something less drastic might be a solution.
At4thWaveNow, we are interested in hearing from parents, family members, concerned professionals, and allies from across the political spectrum. However, we are not in accord with conservative, religious-fundamentalist views about sexuality. We are strong supporters of gay, lesbian, and bisexual people.
Please read blog posts and articles carefully before asking questions or commenting, and check our our FAQs for answers to commonly asked questions.
A newspaper in Seattle published this article on the front page of last Sunday’s paper:
http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/health/transgender-kids-a-family-quest-a-medical-quandary/
Hi 4th Wave.
I have been reading “Psychiatry and the Business of Madness: An Ethical and Epistemological Accounting” by feminist scholar Bonnie Burstow. Much of what she says about the construction of psychiatric diagnoses is very applicable to the current trans mania. Her writing is quite academic, but very thoughtful and considered about how psychiatric conditions are constructed to benefit the business of psychiatry.
(I don’t know how to contact you otherwise to make this book recommendation)
Hi Marm- I will see if I can find that book. Yes, these are lives, our children and our families. The more we allow for endless forms of identity, the more we lose ourselves. I will check it out. Book I read recently: Mind, Modernity, Madness The Impact of Culture on Human Experience by Liah Greenfeld.
Here is some more info about Bonnie Burstow. I do not know what her stance is, with regards to the ongoing gender chaos:
http://www.feministvoices.com/bonnie-burstow/
I haven’t read Radical Feminist Therapy: Working in the Context of Violence, but it sounds like an interesting book that explores many of the traumas of girls/women’s experiences – which of course seem to dovetail with the current wave of young female would be transitioners.
https://www.amazon.com/Radical-Feminist-Therapy-Working-Violence/dp/0803947887/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1476322673&sr=1-3&keywords=bonnie+burstow
Here is the Burstow that I have been looking for – “Toward a Radical Understanding of Trauma and Trauma Work” (PDF of this work):
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0ByCynHkDXXpdcWxOUW1BNndzUTA/edit
http://www.cbc.ca/shortdocs/shorts/princess-jack
Hi 4thWave!
I’m not sure where to post this, but these are a bunch of articles and links I think parents may find helpful as they try to figure out what to do.
http://prospect.org/article/born-way
http://www.npr.org/2008/05/07/90247842/two-families-grapple-with-sons-gender-preferences
http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-vilain-transgender-parents-20150521-story.html
http://muse.jhu.edu.proxygw.wrlc.org/article/257933
https://psmag.com/pink-boys-what-s-the-best-way-to-raise-children-who-might-have-gender-identity-issues-1b12a7ca7e3e#.lo8z4ao8i
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/30/opinion/sunday/sunday-dialogue-our-notions-of-gender.html?pagewanted=all&_r=1
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/the-raging-battle-over-transgender-kids/article24333224/
This one is a study, but for parents who are interested, it is very informative:
https://capmh.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13034-015-0042-y
These are studies parents might find helpful, but they are not easy to get:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26382161
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22455333
I would like to draw your attention to a new article published in The New Atlantis, August 2016, which reviewed data from over 200 peer-reviewed studies and came to some very “controversial” conclusions with regards to transgenderism.
Please watch a video about it here: https://youtu.be/O9RE_VD1nf8
A link to the article is included in the comments.
I am not a parent, indeed I am one of those daughter who thinks of herself as a possible transgender ftm.
I am eighteen, I come from a family which is not conservative at all and I have had issues and doubts about my identity for something like two years now (all of it with the same old dynamics you all already know) .
the last year I came out as trans to all my friends and just like when I came out as bisexual to them nothing has gone wrong, everyone is supportive and accepting and have found no problems in referring at me with my new name and pronouns. I feel good about it and I feel good about looking quite masculine and seeing myself perceived as a male.
My parents, and my family in general, don’t know any of it and neither I want them to know: we always have been very discreet about personal details of our life, we could say our relationship is almost formal, yet I feel the education I received is nothing less than a blessing and I am so thankful for how they raised me and I don’t want them to struggle with anything which isn’t extremely necessary, or worse, to suffer for something I am not even yet able to define properly.
Anyway, I am not sure, and I mean, how could I ever be sure of such a drastic change when I am only eighteen? I don’t want to start an invasive treatment right away, because the point is I myself am extremely sceptical about gender theories, especially when talking about young individuals who yet have to understand and discover a lot, just like myself.
I have been sharing my doubts on internet before only to be answered that I am being transphobic about my own self. I am sick of a community where is professed comprehension and acceptance and yet the only “correct” answer they can think of is “go head, take an enormous risk, make a permanent decision over a confused state of mind”.
I want to wait, to know more, to experience more, because I will always be able to take a step back from being referred as a male from friends, from dressing and behaving like a guy, from binding, but there won’t be any possibility, or at least no easy ones, once got treatments or surgery.
I only recently discovered this website and I found it incredibly helpful. I didn’t change my mind on the matter but I felt relieved for having found a place where people talk of it as a serious and real problem, sharing experiences in a open, not close minded, manner with a different prospective than the one social media tend to emphasize.
Thank you for this website, for providing interesting and stimulating point of views that will help me develop.
I am sorry to have written this much, and please forgive me for any possible mistake in lexicon, grammar or syntax that might have made it difficult to read but I am not a native English speaker.
Sincerely, thank you 4thWave
Thank you for your comment. I really appreciate the nuanced views you’ve expressed here. Very best of luck to you, whatever you decide. Please feel welcome to comment here again. Many of us have daughters or sons your age and your perspective is very valuable.
Hello 4th Wave Now- I like your website. Thank you for providing this platform. I was wondering if you could add my site to your blogroll. It is called Transgender Child Abuse. It deals with the needless mutilation and exploitation of trans children by the medical profession. There are a multitude of studies that show most of these kids will outgrow the condition during their teen years. The doctors are lying to the parents by saying, “Your child will never outgrow this condition, so we might as well start treatment now. That is a huge lie. But what parent would let their child transition if they knew he was going to outgrow it soon? The website is intended to expose this fraudulence and abuse.
The web address is http://www.transgenderchildabuse.com. I think you will like it. If you do, please add it to your blogroll.
Alex
Hello, I am still new to all of this but am finding it so helpful. I am all the way over in Australia, and being ‘trans’ is almost seen as cool here. My daughter, 14, told me she was transgender on the second day of a much needed family holiday. So much for that. Since then, in trying to get help for both my daughter and myself, I have been astounded at the responses I have had from a range of so-called professionals. There seems to be a blanket acceptance here that when a confused teen says they are transgender, well of course that means they are!! I have been told to get on board the trans express or else I am harming my daughter. I have had suicide rates thrown at me by a nurse in a Gender Unit, who also told that once a teen ‘comes out’, the medical side moves very quickly from there. I tried to find out how they make these assessments and was fobbed off. These are confused teens for goodness sake! Asking for surgery is now like asking for new shoes! Another psychologist hauled me in to her room after TWO sessions with my daughter and told me that my daughter was now my son and I had to call her a ‘he’, and if I didn’t I would be putting her at risk. I have also found it difficult to find anyone to talk to who will even entertain the idea that maybe, just maybe my daughter isn’t trans, there are other things going on with her, and that the best thing to do at the moment is just let things be. There is a real push here to be politically correct, celebrate your brave teen and move forward at a frightening pace. If you don’t , you are homophobic, putting the child at risk, an unsupportive parent. Thank god I found this site, it has saved my sanity. My daughter is in therapy with someone I trust (I think!), and I am doing my best to maintain an open dialogue with her. She seems to be enjoying the whole ‘look’ at the moment, no big deal, and I am encouraging her to just take a breath, go with it, and keep doing the things she wants to do. She has asked once to change her name to something more gender neutral, if that buys us some time to figure this out then I’m thinking that might be ok. At the moment I can’t do the pronoun thing, and I’ve told her that because I think as mothers we have rights as well, and that seems to have been forgotten in all of this! I feel like I am constantly walking on eggshells, second-guessing myself and the whole thing has consumed me. As evidenced by this post! But I realise this won’t be a quick thing, whichever way it goes. Thank you for making me feel I have people to talk to who understand. Big hugs to you all.
Lostmom you are following your instincts and that’s what you should do. It’s very scary how the so-called medical professionals all tell us to just accept our child’s self diagnosis. You are so right that this is so wrong. My daughter diagnosed herself with ADHD last year because she had a hard time paying attention in math class. Of course she didn’t have ADHD but she wouldn’t listen to me, had to hear it from her psychiatrist. We have same problem here in my state in US. Therapists cannot question and try to turn a child who thinks they are trans around. It’s deemed “conversion therapy.” I think you are on the right path. I have refused to do pronouns in my house and my daughter has accepted that. She sees a therapist because she has a whole host of pre-existing mental health problems. This therapist is not talking to her about gender identity, just general issues. I think we parents have to question all this. You’re right, they are just kids. They have no idea. I am sure my daughter’s other lifelong issues are causing this one, not vice versa as she has been told by her friends. Good luck. It may be a bit of a journey before they can figure this out for themselves.
Thank you concerned mom, it’s so good to hear from others in the same situation, and I totally agree. My daughter didn’t come to this decision from a place of strength, she also had and still has huge issues with her self esteem and I feel sure they have been the trigger for he declaration of being transgender. It’s like a costume to hide behind, almost a form of self-protection. It will be a journey for all of us, and if my daughter still thinks she is transgender when she’s an adult, then so be it, but for the moment, it’s slowly, slowly….
Last year, our 12-yr old daughter “came out” to us that she is Transgender. We’ve since had arguments about acceptable pronouns and clothing choices. My husband and I decided to “wait it out” because she is to young to know this about herself. (She is constantly watching YouTube and other video blogs.) Her latest is that she wants a binder instead of a bra. She’s not fully developed yet, and I’ve refused to buy her one. I’m not convinced they aren’t harmful in the long run. I don’t want her doing something now, while she doesn’t and can’t fully understand the ramifications.how do I explain to her that she cannot make these decisions about herself because her mind isn’t developed enough to do so? I’ve read lightly on this, but she tells me I’m being prejudiced. Believe me, my husband and I are not prejudiced. We just know that as a teen, she won’t know her place in the world for several years. And we don’t want her labeling herself as one thing now. Help!
Hi Laura, I totally understand how you are feeling and how frightening it all is. It’s so hard to know what to do, what not to do, and don’t worry, I know you and your husband are just trying to help her in the best way you can. Everyone’s situation is different, but in terms of my own, I have a VERY stubborn daughter, and if I say no to everything I feel she’s more likely to be drawn to things, simply because she knows I don’t agree with them. I ended up buying her a binder, not because I wanted to but I felt like I had to ‘meet her halfway’ somehow, and this seemed like a pretty easy, non-permanent way to do it. I did the research and found a site I was ‘happy’ with, but she has strict conditions about how long she can wear it for on any given day. Yes, it initially made me feel horrible, but now I’m kind of used to it, and it seems to have calmed her down a little as well because this whole thing seems to be about the ‘look’ more than anything else. I guess I feel that if wearing the binder stops some of the other angst and ‘pronoun’ talk, then it’s worth it. She also wants to change her name, and I’m thinking about it, again with strict conditions – not legally, gender neutral, and I’ve told her I won’t call her a ‘he’. I do want my daughter to think she has some say in all of this, to keep the lines of communication open, but in my own mind I have some definite ‘no’s. It’s so hard to tell a teen that they don’t know what they’re doing….it just makes them want to do it more!! And I am constantly told by my daughter that I don’t ‘understand’, and I agree with her because I don’t! Try not to panic Laura, from other posts I’ve read we are in for a long journey! It certainly has a lot of traction, but I’m still hopeful it is just a phase….maybe just a pretty long one.
We had the same with my 15 year old. We said no binder, no YouTube, no social media (except very rarely), no phone at night. Social media deifies trans people. Social media is not your friend right now, nor hers. I was quite harsh by some people’s standards – very much ‘No, you’re a girl.’ Ask her how she can know how a boy feels when she isn’t a boy. Ask her how your brain can be right but your body wrong. Ask her what is the difference between a girl and a boy. Show her the ‘Social Construct Masterpost’ and explain how gender is a social construct. Show her Peachyoghurt’s ‘Gender for Dummies’ on YouTube, She is an amazing woman and all her early videos really helped us. Avoid therapists, they all buy in to the transagenda. After 8 months my daughter reconciled with being female. I hope yours does too. Good luck. i know how much this hurts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjmJtLfiZhU – Gender for Dummies
http://words-have-meaning.tumblr.com/post/135520273917/social-construct-masterpost
The you tubes videos are great, as is the article, thanks so much for posting these.
I’m new and researching for my myself and my own daughter who thinks she is trans. She is 18, spent most of her childhood and adolescents as a “girly girl,” and out of the blue before she headed off to college informed us she was trans. My family and I feel it in our guts that she has been indoctrinated by friends and social media, she was on Tumblr for some time before I got wind of what was on it. I am a social media expert and teach at the college level, so you can imagine my frustration that my own child was doing things without my knowing, she wears a binder on occasion and she does wear men’s underwear and boy type clothing, but on Sundays she wears make-up and dresses up, with 4 inch heels to boot, for church. She says she’s A-sexual and PanSexual and is Trans, I’m so confused! It has been about four months since she revealed herself to us and it’s been most difficult on our whole family. I’m very glad to have found like minds here on this blog and hope to garner some information on how to cope and deal with our daughter and her gender confusion. I do believe this is a fad, it’s one of many she has tried over the year, but she has now confessed to our older daughter that she want’s surgery and even asked her to help pay for it, which my oldest child said and emphatic NO to. I’m sad, and hurt and just plain discombobluated about all of this. Any and all advise is welcome. Thank you!!
https://youtu.be/xXAoG8vAyzI Crash Course / vlog brothers educational videos. I think this is important. This is how misinformation is spread these days. My son watches all their videos and believes he was born in the wrong body. In the video gender is presented as a function of the brain, independent from genitalia. The video is presented as fact, not opinion. As far as I can tell, most of their videos are based in fact which makes this one all the more misleading. This video has been on YouTube for 4 years with 2.3 million views. Please have a look. I’d love to read your thoughts.
I am glad to see I am not the only one taking this stance with my daughter. At 14 and 1/2 she announced she was transgender, she is now 16 and still saying this. Prior to this she never minded being female. She’s always been strong willed, smart, and not a stereotypical girl, but never had a problem with gender. Then, at her school, suddenly several of her friends announced being transgender, and so did she. Their parents are on the transgender bandwagon, and we are not. Our stance is that she needs to let herself mature, grow into an adult, and figure out how to live with being a female in a way that’s comfortable to her. She gets so angry with me sometimes, if we talk about it, because I won’t call her a “he” or call her my “son”. She’s adopted a gender neutral name at school, which is fine with us (we don’t use it though), she dresses very androgynously, all this is fine too. I think the media makes everything so much worse, as do some of her friends, and the “acceptance” at school. I struggle so much with wondering if I’m handling it right, and what else I should do. So glad to just read other like minded posts here, so I know I’m not alone in taking the stance my husband and I have.
Hi Confusedmom, it’s so interesting that all our daughters seem pretty similar! I actually asked my daughter what it meant when she said she ‘identified as a male’. She said it means she doesn’t identify as e female. I then asked her what that means, and she had no answer and told me we’d talk about it later!! My daughter is also in a ‘diverse’ group at school, one of the girls has two mums, one of the boys has three mums, I think she ‘s just trying to stand out in a pretty unusual group! And It is so comforting to know that you’re not alone in thinking that the world has gone a bit mad!! If you haven’t already done so, can I suggest you look at the youtube suggested by another mum. Here’s the link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjmJtLfiZhU
I found all her videos to be really helpful, no-nonsense, and I’m going to show them to my daughter, I just have to pick the right moment!
Keep following your instincts!
This video is wonderful, and so helpful in helping children – and adults – see that gender is a social construct.
Thanks lostmom, that was helpful and no nonsense, I’ll check out some of her other videos. Need to find the right time to have my daughter watch some of these!
I found this site last week and am so that glad I did. I have only know that my child feels that they are transgender for a couple of weeks. I tried to tow the politically correct line at first , but something started eating at me and I found this by searching and searching. As my child is 18, they have legal rights, but zero income and are living at home.
Child has never held a job and has no immediate prospects of getting one. In the short term, this may be to my benefit. I would like to leverage the fact that we, as parents, would be paying for any treatment to make competent mental health counseling a required component prior to medical intervention. The are quite immature due to illness related isolation and seem to have an unrealistic expectation of HRT( which I oppose) and seem to believe that they will be a new person almost overnight. They also suffer from depression , anxiety other possible trauma issues preceding and transgender self-diagnosis. I believe the same problems in a HRT changing body are a recipe for disaster. The currently see a therapist for the other issues detailed here. That therapist admitted that they have no real knowledge of transgender issues, but it hasn’t stopped the from pushing my child to come out to us so that they might use our insurance benefits for HRT within the same health network.
I know that I am new, but like many other parents here, I would be so grateful for a way to network and share therapists who are willing to work with the whole child/adolescent and not just the transgender issue. Like the other parents here, I am scared. I honestly do not think that I have ever been so afraid . I don’t know how other parents navigate this at all.
So greatful to find this website, was actually able to ‘breath’ for the first time in weeks. My 13 yr old daughter announced a few weeks after her 13 th birthday that she was gay, then had a boyfriend and declared she was pan sexual, and now the showstopper in the last few weeks as being trans! With a new short hair cut. I was/ am completely heartbroken. My beautiful daughter who had never showed any signs before, in fact she was trying to break into modelling, tall and Gorgous, is now mistaken for a boy!
Trying to get some info, it seems every website makes you feel like a villain if you don’t indulge them. I use the word ‘enabler’ with my friends and family. Not one of my friends or close family can see she is trans, they all say just a phase, even my GP. But every counsellor and psychiatrist I speak too says we need to help her through her transition.
We are in Australia, and now have a specialist gender clinic at the Royal Childrens hospital that has a 2 year waiting list. What the hell is going on!
Thankyou for letting me vent. I have a very open relationship with my eldest daughter ( I have 3) and she has agreed to wait till she finishes school, ( even though the councillor) said that’s a long wait!
So glad I found like minded parents. I am not religious and have gay family members and friends, so I am not at all homophobic, but trans is another issue, and it doesn’t sit right with me or my hubby when it comes to our baby girl
Hi Georgies Mum,
First, you are not alone! Like you, this site has given me my sanity back.And second, our stories are similar (as are most of ours with daughters), and we live in Australia too, so I wondered if we might be able to get in touch with each other? I’m in Melbourne. I contacted the Royal Children’s too and the clinical nurse made me feel if I didn’t get my daughter on the waitlist quick smart I’d be doing her serious harm. And she also said that once a child ‘comes out’ as trans, things will move very quickly from there! What’s all this rush about? These girls are crazy teens! I’ve also had similar conversations as you with various specialists, but I’m now getting better at listening to my gut than to other people who don’t know my daughter. But it’s not easy, and I second guess myself all the time!
Admin, I would be happy for you to forward my email address to Georgies mum if this is something she would like and it’s something you can do?
Thanks!
Hi lostmom, so greatful for your response! I haven’t received your email. If you look up my website for my shop Poppet Rocket in Bentleigh, all my contact details will be there. Looking forward to having a ‘kindred spirit’ xx
An interesting article by an Australian medical professional on Gender Dysphoria and Surgical intervention – https://quadrant.org.au/magazine/2016/12/gender-dysphoria-child-surgical-abuse/
Hi to the best bunch of parents EVER! I need to confess that in my despair I kind of crossed the line to get into my daughters headspace. I set up a fake Instagram account and befriended her as a 15 yr old boy. They only have short private conversations as he is from a very strict family, but I have discovered that she has some self esteem issues and doesn’t fit into the ‘typical’ girl ideals. She commented that because she doesn’t wear tons of make up, doesn’t dress like a ‘slut’ , doesn’t have long hair, skinny, tanned, she doesn’t appeal to boys!
At first she told him she was trans and had been diagnosed with Gender Dysphoria ( we have never had a diagnoses) . A few days ago she sent him a picture of herself with makeup and a filter, she looked beautiful. I can now see there is a lot going on! She is supposed to see a paediatric psychiatrist on Thursday , but I am going to cancel ( she doesn’t know she has an appoint), as when I met her she didn’t instil confidence and made a few jibes about my parenting…wtf!
I will do WHATEVER it takes to get my baby girl back, she doesn’t want me to use her ‘boy’ name, which is a relief.
She now wants me to let her travel to the USA next year to meet her online friends ! Yeah right, a 13 yr old going to stay with strangers in another country? Teenagers really do live in a dream land!
Keep strong, we can get though this!
I’m so pleased to hear your daughter has reconciled with being female. Thank you for sharing your story. We need to get it out there that children DO desist, that it is possible for them to ‘learn to drive the body they’ve been born with’.
I have often heard the transgender movement referred to as a cult. I wondered if this is an apt description, so I did some research and found this on the International Cult Studies Association website (http://www.icsahome.com/articles/characteristics).
Please read through the list and decide for yourself if the trans-activist movement fits these parameters:
Characteristics Associated with Cultic Groups – Revised
Concerted efforts at influence and control lie at the core of cultic groups, programs, and relationships. Many members, former members, and supporters of cults are not fully aware of the extent to which members may have been manipulated, exploited, even abused. The following list of social-structural, social-psychological, and interpersonal behavioral patterns commonly found in cultic environments may be helpful in assessing a particular group or relationship.
Compare these patterns to the situation you were in (or in which you, a family member, or friend is currently involved). This list may help you determine whether there is cause for concern. Bear in mind that this list is not meant to be a “cult scale” or a definitive checklist to determine whether a specific group is a cult. This is not so much a diagnostic instrument as it is an analytical tool.
1. The group displays excessively zealous and unquestioning commitment to its leader and (whether he is alive or dead) regards his belief system, ideology, and practices as the Truth, as law.
2. Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.
3. Mind-altering practices (such as meditation, chanting, speaking in tongues, denunciation sessions, and debilitating work routines) are used in excess and serve to suppress doubts about the group and its leader(s).
4. The leadership dictates, sometimes in great detail, how members should think, act, and feel (for example, members must get permission to date, change jobs, marry—or leaders prescribe what types of clothes to wear, where to live, whether or not to have children, how to discipline children, and so forth).
5. The group is elitist, claiming a special, exalted status for itself, its leader(s), and its members (for example, the leader is considered the Messiah, a special being, an avatar—or the group and/or the leader is on a special mission to save humanity).
6. The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which may cause conflict with the wider society.
7. The leader is not accountable to any authorities (unlike, for example, teachers, military commanders or ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream religious denominations).
8. The group teaches or implies that its supposedly exalted ends justify whatever means it deems necessary. This may result in members’ participating in behaviors or activities they would have considered reprehensible or unethical before they joined the group (for example, lying to family or friends, or collecting money for bogus charities).
9. The leadership induces feelings of shame and/or guilt in order to influence and/or control members. Often, this is done through peer pressure and subtle forms of persuasion.
10. Subservience to the leader or group requires members to cut ties with family and friends, and to radically alter the personal goals and activities they had before they joined the group.
11. The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.
12. The group is preoccupied with making money.
13. Members are expected to devote inordinate amounts of time to the group and group-related activities.
14. Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members.
15. The most loyal members (the “true believers”) feel there can be no life outside the context of the group. They believe there is no other way to be and often fear reprisals to themselves or others if they leave (or even consider leaving) the group.
About the Author of the checklist:
Michael D. Langone, PhD, a counseling psychologist, received a doctorate in Counseling Psychology from the University of California, Santa Barbara in 1979. Since 1981 he has been Executive Director of International Cultic Studies Association (ICSA). He has written and spoken widely on cult-related topics and is Editor-in-Chief of ICSA Today.
My daughter came out as gay at 14. She knows we are an accepting family, so everyone was comfortable with this. She was VERY girly as a child and only in HS did she start to reject this. At 15 she came to us and told us she was trans and wanted to be called a boy. We told her we loved her very much and want to be very supportive of her, but that even with hormones and surgery she will never be 100% a male and that gender is a social construct and she needs to get comfortable with her body (it was a much longer softer conversation than that.) Fast forward 6 months of her not wanting to talk about it with us anymore and lots of lost friends and isolation at school when she went to a school counselor and said she was suicidal. Six weeks into a residential treatment center stay, she revealed she had been raped by a boy a year earlier. Nine months later and she is still pushing for a change in name/pronouns.
The reason I share this is that at her current treatment center of 35 girls with suicidal ideology, 6 are trans and 5 of them are called by male names/pronouns and came from progressive families and communities that were supportive in their desire to transition. (An aside, this treatment facility had never had any trans girls before this year and now they have 6.) At first when my daughter said she was suicidal, I thought it was our fault, our unwillingness to switch her pronouns, but now I know there were other factors as well. After seeing all these other kids at her treatment center, who got the pronoun changes they so desired, and yet these kids are also there for suicidal ideology, I’m more confident that switching pronouns and preparing to make the medical transition is still not the fix for happiness. Therapists need to help the kids and their families deal with the underlying issues of young women not wanting to accept their bodies. I also bring this up because I am constantly reading about large percentages of transgendered people being victims of rape. It has never been clear to me if the statistics being thrown around are for rape that occurred before wanting to transition (and perhaps being at the root of no longer wanting to be a woman) or after transitioning. Does anyone have more information on that? Thanks.
My daughter went into the hospital even while we were supportive and went with the change. It came after, the depression and self harm. It’s improved tremendously and I even have a little desistance. She wasn’t assaulted but she had posted a questionable picture in the past that got her into trouble. She was mortified and embarrassed about it. It was after that when the boy stuff started. I really think that is what started this, and she is kind of a tomboy already. I really think people need to dig deeper, if it’s really transgender it’s going to be treatable in time. But I don’t think it should be the first thing to do, and it’s hard to find therapy that doesn’t go straight to transition. Keep it going.
Purplemom, I’m so sorry to hear about your daughter being raped. How devastating and terrifying it must be for her. I do not have any statistics regarding females who sexually assaulted going on to be trans, but for some of these girls there is a definite connection. I have seen it mentioned several times. It only makes sense that a girl who is raped feels scared and powerless due to the simple fact that she is female. Being female puts a target on her back. If only she were male she would be left alone… I think the connection is obvious. A boy is much less likely to be left alone and not sexually assaulted, raped, catcalled, sexually harassed, etc.
A girl who takes on the persona of a boy, cuts her hair short, wears baggy, dark-colored clothes, and looks masculine undoubtedly would feel safer, stronger, or at least well hidden enough to prevent further assault.
Then there are girls who haven’t been raped or assaulted or harassed, but who just want to be allowed to play the sports they like, pursue the education they want, wear the clothes they prefer, and in general bow out of the hyper-feminine, sexualized pink princess stereotype many girls feel pressured to conform to. Others are lesbian and feel pressure to be “straight.”
Kids of both sexes have so many stereotypical expectations heaped upon them by parents, school, friends, and society in general. While some kids embrace these expectations, it’s no wonder there are kids who are looking to opt out.
These kids weren’t born in the wrong body, they were born into the wrong society.
*”A boy is much less likely to be left alone and not sexually assaulted, raped, catcalled, sexually harassed, etc. ”
Should say “a boy is much more likely to be left alone; a boy is much less likely to be sexually assaulted, raped, catcalled or sexually harassed, etc.”
Dear Purplemom, I don’t know anything about the rape connection , but I do believe there are self esteem issues, and this belief of what looking like a ‘perfect’ teenage girl means in a media driven society.
I have some good news this Christmas… and this is the only place I can think of to share it. We have desistance! My 13 year old daughter is going back to school as a she after the holidays. Her idea, was not pressured by me, and she said she still might transition as an adult but until then she wants to stay a girl. It’s too early to say it’s over, but I will accept that it’s real if she still wants to do it in 5 years. At least she’ll be legally grown. I’ll take it for now. Hallelujah!
Great news! We all hope we can pass on similar news soo !
I just found this website and I am relieved to know there are others out there. I am a single Father (for about 18 months now) with full custody. My oldest (son) is in college close to home, my Daughter lives with me – and has over the prior year or so made a heavy transition. I have always been a doting parent, try to be intellectual with my kids, and have washed them with positive reinforcement all their youth while maintaining clear, somewhat conservative expectations.
I am so lost I am writing this in tears….my Daughter has always been the most beautiful, somewhat shy, academic, overtly feminine young lady her entire life. Since her mid-junior year in high school (She’s now a Senior) she has pushed her “male” gender very hard. I took it (and still do) as a “fad” – one of the ways a youth now has available to explore their identity…I did not fight appearance changes as I have learned that is a fool’s argument with a child….appearances are a personal/expressive means to change and evolve as a teen. I allow her to wear what she wants….even rented her a Tux. for her Junior prom. I HAVE made it exceedingly clear to her though that I cannot consider her a “male”, she doesn’t look, nor act, nor talk, nor walk, nor show any such mannerisms (and NEVER has) other than those she currently forces. I told her I will not change pronouns, nor call her by any other name than her beautiful birth name. I also have not “forced” the issue unless she gets bold and makes a big scene….her personality is very strong….and immature…and if she feels a push she will push twice as hard the other way just to make a point. So I have been steadfast and patient. But I am heartbroken. I can think of a half dozen reasons (or more) psychologically and socially why this came to be because of life events and social exposure to far too liberal systems (our school system). I am trying so hard to be there for her in every way without pushing too far to have myself totally discounted (which I fear is just around the corner). We have always been so very close and I have been such an attentive parent….and I feel somehow it has been for little or nothing and I am struggling so very much.
Welcome Lost in NY, I believe as parents we have a right to say ‘no’ to things we don’t agree with or feel comfortable with. We would say no to bad manners, drugs, bad behaviour and harmful behaviour. If we set boundaries, but let children explore who they are, it will be better in the long run. They are still so young and social media opens up so many more ideas/issues than we even know existed at that age. I’ve told my daughter to drop the labels and just enjoy life. I have told her its braver to accept who she is and live her life, than to make cosmetic and medical changes, as she will never be anything but a girl, she was born a girl and no amount of medical intervention can change what she was born as.
Of course once she hits 18, I cannot stop her doing want she wants, but I believe that by then she will be over all this. Instead of enabling her to transition into a boy, I am emersing her in positive feedback. Telling her how pretty she is, and say how a certain outfit really suits her, and telling her that her short hair cut is really funky and that lots of top female models are sporting the same do. I’m not stopping her choices of clothing, but I twist it around to say it looks cute, or funky etc….using female descriptors rather than male. She needed some new swim gear, rash vest and board shorts. The best was black but the sleeves had silver floral motives, and the shorts were female but a black and green pattern which she loves. Still very feminine but in the black ‘ boyish’ colours she loves…little by little I am getting her back, I even suggested she is gender non conforming, not trans, which she seemed to understand and agree with. We can get our daughters back!
Hi Georgiesmum and all the community,
I’m so happy to have found this website. We’re a family of pagan/agnostic, heterosexual, feminist people and LGBTQ2Q allies. Gender has never been forced on our daughter, as we barely conform to it ourselves. She has been dressing boyish-ly for years and last year she wanted to cut her hair short. She went to her prom in a suit and months later, she started asking all these questions.
As a gender non-conformist myself, I didn’t really care much when she got rid of all her feminine clothes. I understand kids are rebellious (although this is not her personality) and still forming an identity. I don’t believe in sexed brains and we have talked even the cases of older friends/colleagues who are transgender and underwent surgery. I will support her if she decides to transition once that she’s older (maybe in her early twenties) and has more life experience.
I am part of many different women groups and in more than 1000 women that I have met, I have only met 1 or possibly 2 trans girls (I call them girls as they go to women groups), 1 that asked us to call her with neutral pronouns, and one that just dresses and behaves in a more masculine way.
In any case, I would like to suggest a compilation of arguments that validate our positions.
Thank you and keep up this excellent work!
sign up
I can’t even tell you how thankful I am to have found this site. I have felt so alone and like the original blogger have lost hours and hours of sleep since the day my married 24 year old son told me that he was transgender. I have also spent hours researching the subject and have found that the internet is full of information encouraging and glamorizing transition while the info for the opposing opinion is hidden deep and hard to find. I can completely identify with the blogger and take great courage in her words.
Seeing these posts makes me know I am not alone. My 18 yr old daughter sprung it on me she wants to transition on January 9th. Which was unexpected. I really do not believe this is right for her. She has no real medical reason and never has come across as not wanting to be a girl. She moved out then told us she has been on testosterone 2 months. I am really grieving at the thought of losing her. She has been very stubborn about not getting any other help. I know that with her it’s more of hating her body and feeling like she can’t look like how society pushes on girls even though she has a beautiful face. She has a really cute feminine voice and it breaks my heart to think I will never hear it again. Nobody in the family can understand why she is doing this. It’s just not her. I have two younger kids, 10 & 8, that I don’t want to know because they are so impressionable still. I wouldn’t even know what to tell them. They aren’t going to understand why they can’t see their sister. If her voice changes I don’t even want them to talk to her on the phone. My son has autism and this will be very hard on him. I do believe my daughter is on the spectrum as well and that’s part of why she feels this way. I can’t stop crying daily and feel so alone. I can’t seem to find a support group locally. Is there a message board or private FB group we could have to be able to talk easier with each other ?
Hi Francheska, I’m so sorry you’re going through this. Welcome, although I wish you didn’t have reason to be here. The trans trend is hitting SO many kids. I read somewhere recently that the estimated occurrence of transgender females is one in every 100,000 women or girls. However, there are so many of us here with daughters, it does seem like something is going on with social contagion — there seems to be a group of trans kids at every high school. How can it be one out of every 100,000? Something is seriously wrong.
Unfortunately, I don’t know of any in-person support groups that exist anywhere for parents who are pushing back against the trans trend — the only support groups I’m aware of advocate for immediate and automatic affirmation, basically no matter what the individual’s situation is. However, you will find lots of warm support and helpful advice from like-minded parents (as well as others) here. If you are using your real name, I suggest you use a pseudonym to preserve your anonymity, as well as the the anonymity of your daughter and the rest of your family.
Once you comment on a blog post, checkmark the square to receive a notification when someone adds a comment — I think most of us do this so that we can easily have an active dialog with each other.
I hope your daughter is able to find her way out. Best wishes to you and your family.
Francheska and others, I very much feel your pain. I too would like to find a private forum to discuss these issues and Explore ways to cope with the worry and distress we feel at the thought of our children being lead into harms way by this scandal. But also stratagies to best support our kids. I feel so angry for you if someone has given your child testosterone without a good two years of therapy! I found seeing a good councillor myself useful. This must be such a shock for you.
My advise would be to get to her as much info / articles you can so her choices are informed as possible. I think there are many links on this site plus I find Transgendertrend.com is a good source. Perhaps tell her how worried you feel, that you are always there for her and the door is always open, you love her even if you don’t agree with medical treatment paths for gender dysphoria and the reasons way. She must be feeling in pain to be wanting this so show her sympathy and love at every opportunity.
And very important, is to look after yourself. This is advise to myself as much as to you! this is so hard to navigate.
How can I post a document that this group will likely find very interesting?
Hi Jay Keck, can you post a link to it? If the document is not already online, you can post it to an image-hosting site such as imgur and then post a link to the document’s imgur page.
Hiya, this is just about your listing of Stop Trans Chauvinism in your blogroll – I noticed that it reads “Excellent reblogs from the gender-critical blogosphere”.
In fact we also run original material by STC staff writers, and link to pieces from the mainstream media. I’m just a little concerned that people might conclude from your description that if they’re already following a lot of GC writers, they will find nothing new on our site.
Perhaps a description along the lines of “original writing, memes and collation of gender-critical Left-oriented feminism from around the web” would fit in? Or something like that 🙂
Thanks heaps, and love your work xx
Will do. Thanks!
Thank you so much for writing this…I am going through this now with my 13 yr old girl and I feel exactly as you felt…thank you…I thought I was so alone…I want to hug you for writing this!!!!!! You’ve given me hope!!!
I am so grateful for this site as I am going through this hell with my daughter who believes herself to be male. We are being as supportive as we can, allowing her to wear male type clothing and hairstyle, whilst making it clear we believe she is female but confused by what she has read in the internet at a time when she is feeling vulnerable and unhappy. We have just began sessions at the Tavistock Gender identity clinic, UK, as I believed it would help her and us to cope with things and hopefully help her to accept herself as female. It is too early to tell if this will help but I am becoming a little nervous that by attending the clinic we are reinforcing her belief that she male and also that the therapists may feel, due to political pressure, the need to use affirming therapy. We have made it clear to the therapists that we do not accept the affirmative approach. Does anyone here have any advice on this, particularly those who have desisted or those whose children have?
Many thanks
Hi Jessie, I was interested by your question as I am considering asking our GP for a referral to the Tavistock GID too. We have been going through this for two years with my daughter – now 15yrs old. I thought the pages on their website seemed reasonable and balanced. How are you finding them? I spoke to a mother last week who had a really good experience with them with her child not pushing in any direction or labelling. (which is my fear). Would appreciate any insite. Such difficult decisions.
Long article on BAD side efx from people who used Lupron as kids for precocious puberty:
http://californiahealthline.org/news/women-fear-drug-they-used-to-halt-puberty-led-to-health-problems/
Amazed that the reporter makes no mention of the ever growing use of gnrh antagonists for ‘transkids.’ these kids will generally be on the drug LONGER than the kids who were given it for precocious puberty.
When is the FDA going to WAKE UP. This is not a ‘safe and reversible’ treatment. These kids are now old enough to be very pissed/depressed about having been used as guinea pigs. Why do we keep making this same mistake???
I’m stealth on twitter but everyone who can should tweet that (it came from alice dreger’s twitter feed) to J Olson, K Olson, Spack, Garopolo, Ehrensaft and any of the other pediatric gender docs whose handles you can find. Not to mention tweeting it to their parent institutions. They NEED TO WAKE UP.
GREAT catch, Puzzled. The article was published today. The women say they feel they were experimented upon as children. Same experiment being perpetrated on “trans” kids.
Tweeted.
I see stuff like this, and the FTM mitochondrial damage study, and I know I am right to continue pushing my kid to LOOK AT THE EVIDENCE OF DAMAGE in these treatments. I am bound and determined that if she does go forward with T (thank Gd she is too old for ‘blockers), her informed consent is really going to be INFORMED and not based on a 20 minute appointment at the gender clinic. Because those people are damn sure not going to be there for her when she is 30, or 40, or 50, and dealing with health effects of the drugs they are so blithely dispensing now. (And when she’s that age I won’t be there either but … she’ll know I tried. She’ll know I loved her enough to risk making her pissed off at me, maybe for life, in an effort to spare her the kind of grief and pain the girls in this article are suffering.)
One stunning thing in the article is that many of the women, or their daughters who were on Lupron, experienced suicidal depression. Yet these gender doctors are prescribing Lupron right and left to treat suicidal feelings. Jazz Jennings talked openly about feeling suicidal on his TV show “I am Jazz.” S/he has been on blockers for years. This article ALONE should be enough to completely HALT the use of Lupron in prepubertal children until further exhaustive study has been conducted. It’s a medical scandal and it needs to be publicized widely.
Article from Friday’s Guardian.
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/feb/03/experience-i-regret-transitioning#comment-92482115
HI everyone!
I am SO happy to have found this site. I am losing my mind… my 12 year old daughter recently out of nowhere told me that she is trans. We’ve never really pushed gender roles on our kids, and she’s always been a fairly feminine child- she loved American Girl dolls, stuffed animals, clothes from Justice, etc… About a year ago, she got more into pop punk music and started wearing band t-shirts, and dying her hair funky colors. She has severe social anxiety she was seeing a therapist for, but we had stopped going because the therapist said she seemed otherwise happy and well adjusted. About a week ago we found gender dysphoria drawings in her desk; two days later my husband found razor blade marks on her side. I asked her what was going on and she started sobbing, and finally wrote on a piece of paper that she was trans. I told her that I loved her and supported her, but that she needed to slow down, because she’s only 12 and way too young to be making life changing decisions. She wants me to call her by a nickname rather than her full name, which is fine. She has yet to say anything more about it, and the day after she told me, my husband found all the drawings in the trash. I have met with her therapist, who is going to start seeing her again, and is (thankfully) completely on board with a slow down approach. She is going to focus on her anxiety and body issues related to that, and has recommended we see her pediatrician for a low level anxiety medication. My daughter has zero male characteristics, and no sign of gender issues other than feeling uncomfortable with her chest… but she does have two friends who have come out as “non-binary” so I think she is confused. I’ve been a mess- I’m a very left leaning mom who always thought I would be supportive no matter what my children came to me with, but this is tearing me apart. It might be different if she had a demonstrated pattern over years, but this literally came out of nowhere. I don’t know what to do. My current plan is counseling, anxiety med, making sure she’s eating enough and getting sufficient exercise, limiting her time in her bedroom, getting her involved in more activities, and trying to limit her exposure to these friends. I’m going to allow her to dress the way she wants, keep her hair the desired length, etc… but I’m not going to be using male pronouns or legally changing her name. Anything else? This has absolutely wrecked me. I have three children- two boys and a girl and I am freaking out over the possibility of losing my little girl.
I get tears in my eyes EVERYTIME I read one of these posts….I feel exactly the same way with my near 14 yr old daughter. Mine is seeing a psychiatrist who told me to let go of the gender issues ” she is only 13!” In other words, the kids themselves don’t really know. We are looking at changing schools to suit her learning style, and she admitted she was going to ask me if she could start as a boy, I said, this is a fresh start as YOU! Not a new identity, she agreed and said she doesn’t think about it all the time, was just wondering. They change from being positive, to unsure, to not thinking about it, then back to unsure and all over the place….this is being a teenager, with too much access to the Internet and social media! Hang in there, but don’t give in too much, set some boundaries…..I think it’s something, unfortunately, that we have to ride through, even though it breaks our hearts xxx
Hi Veryconcernedmom. Sadly, welcome to the “club.” It sounds like you are doing everything you can to help keep her focused on HER. That is the best thing you can do. Keep her busy and off the internet.
Our daughter’s therapist also said we were doing right in calling her the name and pronouns we’ve always used. She was cutting and experimenting with drugs for a time but has gotten past that. Now she goes by male pronouns at school and work.
At home, she acts like herself, answers to her name without problem. She never did have “male” interests, never into sports, and always has had boyfriends (she’s almost 18). In fact, she was calling herself a “gay boi”. The more she does things like that, the more it seems like a societal fad. She makes jewelry, loves nature, photography and sculpture, loves her cat. She is so feminine, I just can’t see her as a man.
Hang in there. Just love her. I would suggest if you have any common interests or something that you can do with her, that will be great for your relationship. It can help her act herself because with you, she won’t be “presenting” as anything. Shopping or going for a walk or whatever you both enjoy.
Just a friendly addition: plenty of girls and women aren’t stereotypically “feminine”. That doesn’t make them any less female. It’s so unfortunate that girls who don’t fit those stereotypes nowadays start questioning their very beings. And medical and psychological professionals who should know better encourage them in that warped thinking.
I agree! I’m sorry, I should have mentioned that. I’m actually not terribly stereotypically feminine myself- I don’t wear makeup, I’m happiest in jeans and t-shirts, I love football…still totally a girl. That was more about my confusion as to where this has come from, seemingly out of nowhere with my very stereotypically female child. We’ve never pushed gender roles on her at all.
I do have at least a semi heartening update. She and I had a very long talk and she is seemingly in agreement with slowing down. She and her therapist are going to start a body journal, so she has a safe place to talk about her feelings regarding her body. She doesn’t seem like she’s insistent that this is what she’s feeling, more than anything I think she’s trying to figure out what exactly she’s feeling. She’s going to counseling weekly now and her doctor started her on cymbal ta to help with her anxiety, because the cutting herself is the immediate issue to me. In the meantime, I’m trying to just love her and help her the best I can.
Very true, 4thWavenow. I didn’t mean to imply that girls with more athletic interests, for example, we’re less female. It’s just that when she tries to “pass” and requests use of male pronouns it just doesn’t mesh. Why not just embrace the person she is and live life? This fixation on “passing” is devastating on her being able to function in the world.
As far as I know, she gets encouragement from friends and online sites. Everyone else just goes along with her.
I just came across this quote from the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU):
“Over the years, the ACLU has frequently represented or defended individuals engaged in some truly offensive speech. We have defended the speech rights of communists, Nazis, Ku Klux Klan members, accused terrorists, pornographers, anti-LGBT activists, and flag burners…”
How disheartening to learn that trying to protect my vulnerable teenage daughter from doing serious, irreversible harm to her body at the hands of those who stand to profit from it, makes me as offensive as terrorists and pornographers.
I can’t tell you how grateful I am to have found this website. I have spent the last few months reading the posts and articles and so much that I read here has resonated with me. Like many here, I have felt blind sided by the declaration that my teenage daughter has claimed to be of a different gender then the one assigned at birth. I have spent hours upon hours researching and reading and trying to understand how she may be feeling and coming up short of any real answers and I continue to feel like the reality she has set out seems quite different then what I know. We started to see a therapist and the therapist has told me that without a doubt, this is real. I then hear stories during this session about hating her body parts and always having a dislike for things that in my reality has NOT been the case. She has never displayed any signs of anxiety or depression, in fact its been quite the opposite. I also would not have said she had masculine traits. I do know that she has confidence and self esteem issues, like many of us did and do regardless of gender. I also know that she grasps on to things that are often other peoples likes and makes them her own, but this seems extreme. I agree that this may not be a phase but to me seems something far more serious. I’ve tried to read everything I can to become supportive but I can not relate with any of it, until I came to this site. The therapist we’ve been seeing would say that I’m searching for answers and hope because I don’t want to accept the truth and in my opinion the therapist has quickly come to a conclusion based on a perception that I fear may be skewed. And the discussion of puberty blockers and surgeries was the worst day of my life. I’m a single mom, and I’m scared and I feel so alone. I’m glad to find a place of support that I can relate to, for that I thank you all for your bravery for speaking up! I’m hoping that my words will resonate with others and the very least to say, you are not alone!
So sorry you are having to deal with this alone, it is hard enough for me with the support of my husband. I don’t know where you live but I assume not the uk where we live. We are fortunate to have access to the NHS clinic who have assured us they will use an exploratory approach, questioning our daughter about what she feels and wants and if she can be a masculine girl etc. They use a slow approach and don’t rush in with hormones or at least they say so fingers crossed. Please do ditch your daughters therapist and find one who uses an exploratory approach if you can. This affirmative approach will be exposed as the scandal it is at some point in the future but how many of our kids will be damaged in the process? Wishing you and your daughter all the best.
Thank you Jessie for your reply. I’m in Canada. Not sure if that explains a lot but there seems to be a big push here to ONLY be affirmative on these matters. From the research I did it appears that therapists are not aloud to be anything but affirmative. When I try and talk to my daughter about any of this I feel like I get “canned” responses and there seems to be a lack of emotion, while I’m struggling to keep it together. I was hoping the therapist could get passed the canned responses without the emotional attachment that I have. With that in mind, I went forward and met with a few therapists and thought I had chosen one that may try to peel back some layers before jumping to conclusions. I think the therapist did a good job at not un-validating my feelings or hers, however with that said, I don’t think there was nearly enough digging done to come to the conclusion that the therapist admitted was defined within the first 15 minutes. 15 minutes that could change lives so significantly and irrevocably. I barely make a decision about what I’m going to wear tomorrow in 15 minutes….its maddening.
KoolAid Kids Mom, I’m so glad you found 4thwave. I’m so sorry you are in this position as a single mom. The first advise I would give you is to take her out of that therapist right away. Keep her away from any group that will pull her in further. Keep reading here to give you more knowledge to fight back with.
You are not alone.
Thank you for your support and advice. I feel lately like everything is a threat and I’m trying rapidly to figure out where the source of information is coming from. Unfortunately I think the culprit may be school. I’m still working my way cautiously through as I know she is stubborn and the more I push the more she will so its a balancing act of sorts. Every bit of knowledge I can gain is helpful! Thanks again!
My husband and I, sadly, have a daughter with what sounds like a very similar story. We’ve been through her tantrums, depression, the politically-correct therapists, and are still hip-deep-in-the-big-muddy.
The analogy we use is that trans is – at least for our daughter – the new anorexia. Our daughter is terrified of growing up, terrified of intimacy, and trans gives her a retreat from all those issues. And yet, it allows her to assert control in the most primal way – “I’m not going to be who you say I am.”
Our prime strategy – with the help of a very insightful therapist – is to make sure our daughter gets no energy bouncing off our opposition. Trans? Ok. Cut your hair off? Shrug. We held it together publically when she announced she was going on hormones.
We hear her provocations, and gently turn the conversations to larger issues: educational goals, learning to drive, earning her own spending money.
This is not always easy to do. In the end, can we save her? No.
But by going on with our lives – casually mentioning to her that we’ve bought a convertible or are just back from a snorkeling trip – we hope to communicate that life goes on, provocations or not.
And we have found that committing to going on with our lives, and our snorkeling, has saved our sanity. Which is pretty important.
Love this group. Every time we respond to one another here, we double down on our own wisdom and strength. Love to everyone. Onward!
Thank you so much for this website. I have recently been researching gender dysphoria, as it relates to my 15-year-old daughter. Being new to all of this and suddenly coming from a close-to-home perspective, there is so much that I don’t know. But my only response can be to love and protect her as best I can. I feel that society largely is presenting only one side of this issue and the full court press is on for championing therapy and reassignments to the exclusion of any other alternatives or views. This is all moving so fast and I don’t want to lose my child.
Dear wonderful parents and allies:
I am beyond grateful to learn of the existence of 4th Wave Now. My name is Annie and I am writing this openly, yet off to the side, still somewhat in the shadows, is my very lovely girlfriend, Anastasia who has been in a living hell for a couple of years with her young son, Silas. When I say young, I mean young. Two years ago, she and her now ex-wife began the process of a messy and painful divorce. I will spare you the details. During that time, when Silas was in PRESCHOOL, there was a little boy who was declared to be transgender. There was much fanfare and his parents went the whole nine yards with announcements and celebrations. During that time, Silas stated one day that he also was a girl. Anastasia’s ex-wife picked up that ball and started running with it and has not stopped since. In reading many of the posts here, I have come across the word “blindsided.” That is the word that Anastasia uses. She literally had no idea. She also could not foresee just how far her ex would carry this out. We all hear of “truly transgendered” young children. Whenever Anastasia voiced her genuine concern, her ex threatened her with the likelihood that she would lose custody of Silas if she did not go along with the whole thing. She was terrified and confused and we all now how things go when extreme fear and panic cloud our vision. Lawyers told her there was nothing she could do legally. Child therapists told her she needed to be more accepting. Professionals also told the ex-wife that she should take a few steps back – that with young children, we want to keep things loose and open and not reassign identity. But this only caused her to sink her claws in deeper and she, too sent out an announcement celebrating “the rebirth of her daughter.” She buys books for Silas about young trans kids and has shown him videos and Youtubes about sex reassignment surgery and about “being hormoned” (Silas’s word). When Silas entered kindergarten, the ex went ahead on her own and registered him as Lara, a female. She had already been dressing him in pink things from head to toe. She accused Anastasia of being transphobic and of harming Silas. It breaks my heart to write all of this. Anastasia tried talking to the school early on. She told them that none of this was black and white and that she did NOT experience Silas as being transgendered and she requested the use of gender-neutral pronouns. The school said no. If “Lara” said she was a girl, they had to go along with it. I ask, what is so very wrong with this picture?? Although Anastasia has been labeled abusive by her ex, we of course see it the other way around. But what is the recourse? Anastasia has gotten some of her emotional footing back. She has searched her heart and soul and does not even experience Silas as being gender dysphoric, let alone transgendered. She could completely go along with it. Buy dresses and glittery boots and call her Lara exclusively. But would that be right? Although in this situation, I have found most of the therapists consulted to be fairly useless, Silas does have a child therapist now who seems to be more neutral and that is a vast improvement. Anastasia also found a well known therapist who is trying to help the parents sort it all out. She has a sub-specialty in gender issues. I do believe she is in the camp of NOT reassigning gender at such a young age. So, maybe there is hope.
I apologize for the length of this post. Thank you ALL for your support, pearls of wisdom, and most of all your understanding. This has been such a lonely and scary road. Just knowing you are all out there helps a lot.
British court case that you will find of interest. In this case the judge awarded custody to the parent who was protesting the ex’s early transing of the kid:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/custody-boy-living-as-girl-with-mother-awarded-to-father-high-court-judge-a7374761.html
this rush to “trans” young kids, especially in the case of parental discord, what a mess. I feel for your friend and for Silas.
There is good 30 year research from Sweden that showed hormones and surgery do not “cure” anyone, young people are being brain washed, contact ALL of your State and Federal representatives and tell ALL your medical practitioners that you do not support this, rad feminists and right wing women are finally uniting to fight this, look up the Tucker interview, we personally have a son who no longer associated with us because we won’t support this, it is breaking up families
Kathleen penak, I have been working on letters for a few days now, (mailing out tomorrow). I have addressed my concerns to my senator, governor, and assembly men/women. It’s a disgrace what is being done to our children. Anyone from NEW JERSEY? I’m looking to connect with other families going thru this in NJ. Hugs to all of you!!
My child, age 15, born girl, told me last week, that she is a boy. I asked how long has she been dealing with this and it’s been a year. Here and in privacy I will refer to her as a she. But I am so torn and confused. I do believe that gender dysphoria is real and accept transsexualism. I am an Allie of LGBT and very progressive. My daughter is more practical and never had interest in makeup or dress up or dolls but she also not into cars trains, super heros and action figures, swords and guns. She is has pretty slender body and stunningly pretty. She never cared about her looks. But she always tended towards social anxiety and generalized anxiety. Never told me when she got her period and never liked to discuss it. She tends to prefer unisex clothing but has also had phases of likening feminine things too. She just now had me cut off her very beautiful long curly hair. She looks older with long hair. Anyway she is petite, soft spoken and very feminine in her voice and gestures and way she walks. I wish she had more confidence and comfort in her skin. Anyway I have told her things that happened to me. (Almost was raped at 13) and she knows about me being victim to domestic violence last year with a rape attempt as well. I developed severe ptsd this past year. Anyway I am not convinced that he natural tendencies towards anxiety didn’t have her reject her female body especially as it’s changing and everyone saying she looks similar to me. (She is way more pretty than I ever was) she is bright and kind. And I know she tends to feel different. She may be slightly autisitic or it’s her anxiety struggles that make her feel different. Anyway I am allowing her to add another name to her name and go by a new name and let her cut her hair off. And secretly I been crying and worried. She wants to be full on male. Use men’s toilet etc. and have us use her preferred pronoun of he. I do. And I let her wear clothing to deempathize
Her figure and make her breast appear as flat as possible. I don’t know what to do. Scared not to go along but scared to go along as well. I am against surgery and hormones. And wish she wasn’t rejecting her body or looks in any way. I am so glad a liberal is making this group. I need lots of help and support and so does my daughter. It all feels like dangeroUs territory either way. I hope it just goes into opening up the idea of what gender is and somehow cure dysphoria without surgery or medications. Thankyou for this group