This is a guest post by long-time 4thWaveNow community member overwhelmed. She is available to respond to your comments and questions in the comments section for this post.
Most trans activists and gender specialists will concede that at least some prepubescent children will grow out of gender dysphoria. (How many? No one knows, but it’s a current hot topic which I’ll be tackling in a post in the near future). But it’s touted as if it were gospel that once puberty hits, if a teen says they’re trans, then they are–case closed. Gender dysphoria at puberty = gender dysphoria for life.
As my own personal story attests, this is simply not always the case. I’ve been hearing from more and more young people who have bucked this supposed hard-and-fast truism. And now we hear from another mom whose daughter has changed her mind.
It has long been known that upwards of 90% of gender dysphoric girls are same-sex attracted, but overwhelmed‘s daughter is one of a growing number of young women who are opposite-sex attracted but who also believe themselves to be transgender.
As I experienced with my own teen, overwhelmed tells us that most of the medical and psychological professionals she encountered–far from being cautious and methodical about handing out a trans diagnosis–rushed to the assumption that her daughter was transgender simply because she claimed to be.
Seeing a pattern, readers?
Another mom listens to her gut
by overwhelmed
Earlier this year my daughter revealed that she really was a gay boy trapped in a girl’s body. She had never shown any previous signs of discomfort with her body so I was confused by this belief, especially the urgent desire to medically transition NOW!
I called my pediatrician’s office for a referral to a psychologist for my daughter. The nurse who answered the phone had just attended a transgender educational seminar and felt like she knew all about my daughter, even though she had never met her. This nurse completely dismissed my over 16 years of knowledge of my daughter. Just like that. She told me that my daughter’s pre-existing depression and anxiety were symptoms of her being transgender, not the other way around. I told her that my daughter had been online in Tumblr communities and had watched a lot of YouTube transition videos that had likely influenced her. The newly educated nurse, however, basically told me that I needed to accept that she was transgender, and to start supporting my daughter in being her authentic self.
My daughter’s first psychologist also completely dismissed any knowledge I had about my daughter. At the time I was just relieved to have found someone to talk to my daughter who I was concerned might be suicidal. I was happy that this psychologist had experience working with others who were transgender. I mistakenly believed that she would be able to tell that my daughter wasn’t an authentic trans boy. While traveling to and from her therapy sessions, I shared transgender scientific research with my daughter— that many people identifying as transgender have mental health problems, that the vast majority (80%) of kids outgrow their gender dysphoria, and so forth. I didn’t realize it initially, but my daughter was also sharing this information with the psychologist. And, the psychologist was telling my daughter that the information I was telling her was bogus, made-up information. She mentioned that she had a PhD and knew much more than I. She told her that I shouldn’t believe everything I read online. She told my daughter that she wanted to include parents during the next session so that she could “set me straight” on the facts.
I fired her.
In the meantime, I felt the need to get information out there, so that other parents could benefit from the information I had found. There is such an overwhelming amount of information online touting that gender is unchanging, that transition is the only cure. I know this is wrong. All you have to do is look at the scientific research, or even to the growing number of detransitioners who are speaking out. I started submitting comments to transgender media articles and even on some parenting forums. I am a person who tends to be pretty careful in what I write, never intending to be offensive, but one site I went to banned me immediately because I recommended googling “transgender regret” as a way to get information from a different perspective! I have also had quite a few comments on media articles disappear due to similar recommendations.
Overall, as a parent who did not buy into my daughter needing cross-sex hormones and lopped off breasts, I am ignored when I voice my concerns. I’m silenced. I’m vilified. I’ve been called transphobic and gleefully told that it isinevitable that my daughter will commit suicide due to the lack of support.
Unfortunately, parents concerned about their trans-identifying children face a perfect storm of opposition. They are battered from many directions, told that they are wrong, warned that if they don’t start supporting their child that suicide is a likely outcome. These messages come from their own children, the overwhelming pro-trans voices online, the news and media, medical professionals, government officials, and even school districts.
I admit that there were times when I doubted my gut instincts. But, fortunately I was able to find a group of parents in the same situation (thanks 4thwavenow!) and have greatly benefited from their support. And, fortunately I found another therapist for my daughter who was able to uncover the reasons she felt disconnected to her sex. She had once felt powerless as a female (due to some traumatic experiences) and thought a male identity would be a better fit. Now she no longer identifies as transgender. While still eschewing most things considered conventionally feminine, she has embraced the fact that her presentation and passions don’t make her any less female.
Although I am able to relax about my own daughter’s status, I am still very concerned about the vast majority of parents in this situation. I fear that many won’t find the support system that was so beneficial to me. I fear that they won’t be able to find a mental health professional that will try to uncover their child’s underlying reasons for identifying as trans. I fear that many parents will succumb to the pressure.
It shouldn’t be like this. There shouldn’t be so much pressure against parents who are genuinely concerned about their children’s health.
Thank goodness there are a few psychologists who are still willing to tackle other, co-occurring mental health issues when a kid claims to be trans. The sad and scary thing is, it is becoming more and more difficult–in some places, actually **illegal**–for a therapist to do this very important work.
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I’m a future counsellor who’s been paying close attention to this entire situation and I will certainly be supporting young women in affirming their natal sex and concerned parents who want answers to this dangerous trend.
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That is wonderful to hear, queenofcups. Please keep in mind to watch for internalized homophobia.
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Queenofcups, so glad to hear this! Thank you!
And I hope that there are many other future and current mental health professionals out there paying close attention too. There is an urgent need.
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I’m a counselor currently supporting natal females in the biological sex and same sex orientation. I can’t tell you how stomach turning and ethically challenging it is to work with colleagues who promote self-destruction in both males and females.
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Thank you, naturalbornwoman.
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Thank you for being on board, naturalbornwoman!
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My 15 y.o. nephew just told my sister & her husband that he wants to be a girl. There has never been ANY indications prior to when this happened, 3 days ago. He’s been bullied all thru school, has always liked girls, (has been caught multiple times looking at naked girls on the internet). He recently joined an after school group, that was supposedly an anti-bullying group, but it turns out it’S a gay, trans, etc. group. He’s been over exposed to this type of Social Media Contaigen.
My sister called & asked me to be here to help support them with this. The thing that really blows my mind, is that a TEACHER at school is the leader of this “group” & calls him by a female name!! I can’t believe that an authority figure, in the school system is supporting this behavior and has not alerted the parents about this!!
We all really believe that all the Social Media, his need for approval from others (he has slways been socially awkward & has trouble making friends, which his parents have been working with him on) is the motivating factor for this.
I’m also totally amazed that it is next to impossible to find a therapist who will address the underlying issues, instead wanting to help him jump on the transgender bus & start hormones & all that crap!! These kids are much too young to even realize the life long implications of going thru with something like this. It’s as if this is the “Norm” anymore.
From a very confused Aunt
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So glad you found us. Unfortunately, the schools have also been completely co-opted. In many public schools, transgender policies are written by activist groups; see here:
https://4thwavenow.com/2016/02/14/nea-teams-with-trans-activists-to-set-school-policy-secretly-undermine-unsupportive-parents-even-on-overnight-field-trips/
As to finding a therapist, see this recent post, which features a skeptical therapist weighing in. Please also check out the comments section on the post and contribute if you like.
https://4thwavenow.com/2016/02/29/tumblr-snags-another-girl-but-her-therapist-mom-knows-a-thing-or-two-about-social-contagion/
I’m sorry your family is going through this. I hope you and your sister can stay strong. No one is studying the effect of social media and the trans trend on socially awkward teens in particular. Tumblr and Reddit and YouTube “friends” create a false sense of community, especially for kids who are having trouble connecting with others in real life.
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Sherry, glad you’ve made it here, but sad to hear it was due to your nephew’s recent trans identification. Your story sounds so similar to many others that have been shared here.
If your sister goes the route of therapy for her son, I recommend vetting the mental health professionals. Unfortunately, some therapists will further cement a trans identity by only affirming your nephew as the opposite sex. I personally would avoid any that use terms like “cis,” “cisgender,” and “authentic self.” Or state the once trans, always trans dogma. Or say that starting hormones may actually help with a diagnosis (good experience=trans, bad experience=not trans)–my daughter’s first therapist actually said this.
I recommend this link from a psychologist that gives tips for parents searching for a competent therapist:
https://4thwavenow.com/2015/09/29/guest-post-tips-for-parents-on-finding-a-therapist/
Good luck and hang in there.
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I feel afraid to even look for a therapist because I’m afraid that she might be encouraged. My sister was even showing her before and after pictures of people who transitioned whille she was at our house for Christmas! I was outraged! My daughter now acts so uncomfortable about her breasts but I believe she was influenced by YouTube. She was a “Tom boy” when she was young. Really I just thought of her as a girl who like basketball and playing outside and Legos. That didn’t mean she was really a boy. She didn’t like tight clothes and short shorts. She liked t-shirts and Baggie Bermuda shorts when she was in elementary. However, once in middle she started wearing fitted clothes and bikinis to the public pool. She didn’t even wear shorts or a cover. However, now she claims she’s always been uncomfortable. She still competes on the swim team in a competition suit and never strikes me as uncomfortable. Just a year ago she was wearing short shorts and fitted tops, bikinis. I don’t know how to counteract the misinformation of youtubers and the media. She’s 17 and I feel like I have such a short time to get through to her. However, she has recently abandoned the desire for testosterone but still wants her breasts removed. I don’t understand. Maybe she is hearing me.
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I wish you luck with your daughter, Worriedmomof5. Your story sounds so familiar.
If you haven’t looked for a psychologist, I would give it a try since I believe therapy is what helped my daughter the most. Unfortunately you will need to go through a vetting process to weed out those that will do more harm than good.
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Bring a RadFeminist with you to the vetting session(s).
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I so want to believe that what girls are clinging to when they catch on to those YouTube transition videos is a way out of conforming to female protocol. Middle school was, for me, the most awkward, difficult time, because all the girls around me were starting to wear very “grown up” clothing, and I didn’t want any part of it. But because it’s almost ubiquitous and you do get bullied at school for not wearing it, it becomes a balancing act of wearing something feminine just to fit in and letting that offset the discomfort of wearing something feminine in the first place. This can all happen very subconsciously – your daughter may not have expressed any discomfort with her body because at the time she was too distracted by the pressure to fit in and the relief she felt when she did.
I never wore a bikini and stopped wearing skirts and dresses as soon as I could, but I would get a similar kind of “good” feeling when I’d look feminine enough for others as I’d get when I’d finally take it all off and go back to my jeans and sweatshirts. It’s a crazy balancing act sometimes, and I think probably a LOT of women go through the same thing every day.
But then seeing girls on YouTube totally throwing it all away in transition and getting all this support and enthusiasm with their decision – that’s pretty influential! It’s like “Oh, so I can wear clothes I’m comfortable in – I just have to be a boy!” If only we could get rid of the “I just have to be a boy!” part and celebrate the throwing away of those feminine trappings for every girl who wants to throw them away. It’s just SO HARD when society as a whole does still tend to look down on gender non-conforming women and girls.
I wish you all the best with your daughter. Please let her know that there are lots of awesome women out in the world who wear whatever they want to wear, do whatever they want to do, and still identify as women. Whatever her orientation, the BUTCH series of photographs by Meg Allen – http://megallenstudio.com/butch – may be a comfort to her.
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“If only we could get rid of the “I just have to be a boy!” part and celebrate the throwing away of those feminine trappings for every girl who wants to throw them away.”
I love this statement! So true.
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Reblogged this on Stop Trans Chauvinism.
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Thank you for sharing your story, especially the outcome. I so hope that in time, as more people experience alternate narratives to the transgender route, therapists and psychologists begin to take notice. I was thinking the other day that treating gender dysphoria with medical transition is a bit like how so many mental illnesses were treated with lobotomies. It was something that could be done so it was greatly promoted and widely accepted, though we know now how mistaken we really were. Medical transition may be vital to some people – a very small minority – who absolutely can’t exist with their natal bodies, but for so many who are just on this train of “Sure, change your gender and everything will be great!” it’s just simply not the only option.
And that pre-existing anxiety and depression is so key. I am so glad to hear that your daughter has been able to dig into the causes and begin to resolve them. If there’s any blessing in this whole transgender thing it’s that – that it does serve to red-flag *something* being wrong that needs to be addressed. It’s just so important to get it addressed before the individual gets swept along in the current wave of trans activism.
My heart breaks for straight girls who are running into this, too. I just can’t get over how impossibly rigid the gendering of our society has become, but all you have to do is turn on the TV at night – at least in America – and see 90% of the women all looking exactly the same. You have to wonder how any young person is ever going to feel like they can just be themselves. Those YouTube transition videos seem to offer hope, just in the wrong form.
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Yes, those Youtube transition videos are especially difficult to counteract. My daughter initially provided me with links to view some of them in an attempt to convince me (as it had her) that transitioning was a positive thing.
If my normally pretty rational daughter can be convinced that she is transgender, I think it is safe to say that there are many, many more like her out there. More mental health professionals need to wake up to the powerful influence of these videos.
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It is interesting that you describe your daughter as being normally pretty rational but somehow still being convinced that she was transgender. My son views himself as highly rational. For the most part, he is rational and logical except whenever the topic of being transgender is discussed. My son has previously described himself as a lesbian in a male body. I am hoping that he too will desist just as your daughter has done. For now, I take comfort in knowing that there are other teens out there that have been influenced by the Internet that do eventually desist.
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Proudmomofanerd, your son sounds like flip side of the coin from my daughter. Even though both our children have prided themselves on their logic/being rational, it wasn’t a strong enough shield to protect them from this harmful belief. I hope your son will eventually realize how illogical his reasoning is and learn to be comfortable in his body.
I just re read what I wrote and realize I wasn’t very clear. I guess what I was trying to convey is that I feel my daughter is a lot like her peers. Many of them don’t feel comfortable with the changes of puberty. Don’t like being restricted to protocols for their gender. Don’t feel comfortable being a sex object. They like wearing comfortable clothes. If you add in that many of them are dealing with anxiety and depression, my daughter seems pretty typical for a teenager. And, due to her reasoning skills, I never would have guessed in a million years that she would have been at risk for believing she was transgender. This leads me to believe that there are many kids out there just as susceptible as mine.
I am a parent that really likes to be prepared. I’ve talked to my kids about all kinds of potential dangers in an attempt to keep them safe. But this is one risk that I didn’t see coming. And I’m guessing a lot of parents are in the same boat–totally unprepared and freaked out by all the potential consequences.
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Overwhelmed, you are an excellent writer and very logical thinker, who organizes her thought and the issues clearly. Thank you for your intelligent posts, just as I thank 4thwavenow for this intelligent, wise, and caring blog. I am forwarding some of both of your posts to a friend who is a pediatrician and active in my state’s pediatric association. I hope you are Facebook friends with as many clinicians as possible, and sharing these online, along with other articles/blog posts questioning transgender dogma and transactivist political influence on the medical, academic, and other helping professions. Or printing out key articles and mailing them to clinicians, school principals, education associations, local and state electeds, and local/state medical associations. With a handwritten note on each stapled article (not a removable post-it) asking that the,article please be circulated among colleagues, along with a list of online resources: websites, blogs, listservs.
The more that all of us can plant seeds of questioning or dissent, among all sectors of society, the better off we’ll all be. The more children will be saved the abuse of the needless and harmful illusion of “transition.”
One more thing. I would add to that post-it, “This is food for thought. Minds are like parachutes: they only operate when open to ALL information and perspectives on an issue.” Because it is amazing how many intelligent, highly educated people, even scientists such as doctors, forget this when there is stigma associated with an issue, and with questioning a trend or orthodoxy. (I encounter this not only with sharing my radfem views on transgender, but in advocating for Health At Every Size(tm) with fat-phobic doctors. Too often, their minds are firmly nailed shut to the point of being afraid or otherwise unwilling to even read an article, until they are reminded that that is not practicing science.
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fmnst, thanks for your praise! And thank you for forwarding our posts to your pediatrician friend!
I do think it is important to disperse this information to a much wider audience, especially to therapists, doctors, teachers and legislators. I’m working to get my experience/viewpoint out there.
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Overwhelmed: Thanks for sharing your story. Your daughter and mind sound very similar. I am very fortunate as well that I have found a therapist who helps my daughter look at all the different ways to be a female, and is making it ok for her to not make any decisions now. It’s ok for my daughter to just “be,” and focus on school, other interests, career plans, friends, cute boys, etc. I hope that some day we get to the point where my daughter can find happiness in who she is without hormones or surgical intervention.
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Themom, I’m glad that you have found a therapist that is helping your daughter! I hope that eventually she is able to be comfortable with her body too.
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Wonderful news, overwhelmed! Thanks so much for sharing! I hope some day to be able to make a similar post, but unfortunately my daughter (also “gay” for boys) is not there yet. She has backed away from the trans stuff to some degree; she now says she is not male, but is not yet willing to say she is explicitly female. She is a junior in high school, and like WorriedMomof5 I feel like my time to help her is quickly running out. I’m afraid that once in college she will be told all the reasons she “must” transition and the pressure will be greatly turned up. I’m afraid that even if she reconciles with being a female, that pressure from well meaning “progressives” in a college environment could negate the progress she has made in admitting that she really does not feel like a man or want to be a man, nor is she particularly dysphoric.
Because of her ongoing depression and anxiety I would very much like to keep her nearby for college, at least at first, (unless she makes great strides in the next year and a half). I was checking out a nearby college online when I saw their huge announcement on their website that next week is Transgender Week! Yay! My kneejerk reaction was to scratch that one off the list, but I know there will be similar pressure and celebration of all things trans at any college.
OK, sorry for making this post all about me; thanks for indulging me in a vent session. I’m so glad to hear the news about your daughter, overwhelmed. Best wishes to her and your family. To WorriedMomof5, make use of this website and all the linked sites, blogs and information — read, read, read and ask questions. 4thwave is ***awesome*** to provide this site for all of us.
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SkepticalMom, my daughter went through several phases before she reclaimed her femaleness. For quite a while she was in an “I’m just human” status where she was still rejecting female, but not really embracing male as strongly either. I hope that your daughter is progressing down this path as well. I wish you luck.
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SkepticalMom: I am also extremely worried about college. My daughter wants to go away to school, and I’m just hoping we have enough time to get her in a good place psychologically so she isn’t influenced towards transition. I think we still have some really rough times ahead between now and then.
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Thank you! I’ve Ben following this blog for a little while now and it has been a huge source of support. My daughter is planning to join the Air Force after high school. She wants to legally change her name before but enter as a female. I don’t know how that will work out. I’m not sure how the military deals with transgender issues. I would mainly worry about her safety. I’ve heard too many stories from friends who are lesbian of being threatened with rape or physical violence. It was several years ago but I still worry about that mentality. I keep communication open with her and share things I find. The waiting game is tough.
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I have posted elsewhere on this blog’s comments, encouraging parents to share read materials, such as print-outs of these blog posts, or sending them to her Facebook. If she is unwilling to read them, ask if she will be willing to trade. You will read something she wants you to read in exchange for your reading, or watching, something she wants you to see. Then keep exchanging articles or books of similar length with each other, on that basis. It role models open-mindedness and critical thinking. You will also find out what’s influencing her, have more knowledgeable discussions, and you will be able to find common ground. Best to you!
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Oops, I meant to write the suggestion that you offer to read something she wants you to, in exchange for her reading something you want HER to. Of roughly equal length. A short article for a short article, a book for a book, etc.
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Thanks for this, Overwhelmed. I remember how upset you were when you started posting here, and I’m so glad for this update — and particularly glad that you’ve found a psych who is helpful.
And 4thwave — re your intro comments, that whole “if they’re trans in adolescence they’re not going to change” — I read all that too, a couple years ago when my kid told me she thought she might be trans (at age 15). I read it, and it scared the piss out of me, and it’s still all over the internet, with parents no doubt still believing it’s immutable truth. But it’s a notion based on studies of desistance that were not done in anything like the current social climate.
In particular, these studies were not looking at teens with late-onset feelings of being trans, as far as I can tell. And certainly not looking at natal females whose idea that they are trans arose after binging on youtube, tumblr, reddit, etc — trying to figure out why they are having such trouble being the kind of girl society dictates, or why they hate the onset of puberty. These kinds of kids are not “persisting” with some long-held notion. These girls — whether lesbian or bi or straight — are responding to a trend. (As recently as 2011 the American Psychiatric Association still admitted that “Those [adolescents] whose GID symptoms emerge later, often with pubertal changes and/or in the context of a psychiatric disorder or following Transvestic Fetishism, present with a more complicated management picture.” Too bad a lot of therapists have apparently stopped believing in a “complicated management picture.”)
These kids are jumping on a social-media-fueled “solution” that seems to hold out a simple cure for a lot of completely understandable bad feelings about being female.
I’d need to see some long-term studies of persistence/desistance in THOSE kinds of adolescents before I would be willing to once again accept the “adolescents who say they’re trans, stay trans” dictum. I don’t know what’s going on with natal males, but this onslaught of young women who want to opt out of patriarchy — not by saying a healthy “f*ck you” to patriarchy but rather by trying to become men — is an undeniable phenomenon, as previously reported here.
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Puzzled, I remember seeing your posts when I first arrived here. You are right, I was VERY upset. I had just read the “once they say they’re trans, then they’re always trans” misinformation plastered all over the internet. Scared me silly and probably shaved some years off my life.
By the way, I’ve always admired your comments, which ooze so much logic and sensibility. Just as an aside, my username was inspired by yours. I got up the nerve to comment for the first time, looked at your username and said, heck I’m not just puzzled, I’m overwhelmed. And that was that.
But, back to the topic at hand, I think you bring up very good points (as always). This whole trans trend is very much a product of social media influences. The public at large has been slow to realize it. Many vulnerable people have bought into the “logic” and, unfortunately, there have been and will be many victims.
I do continue to hope, though, that our voices will help turn the tide on this trend. The more, the merrier.
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My daughter has used the argument that once a teen says they are trans they never change. It is so frustrating. She just doesn’t have the life experience to see that there are other options to consider. I would love to show her some of the information I’ve found about people finding their way to accepting their natal gender, but the therapist told her dad and I not to talk to her about gender issues right now. It’s so hard to sit and wait for this process to play out.
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A long term study like the one you suggest could be pivotal to those questioning the trans narrative, and a lifesaver for parents, like me, who were thrown into a complete panic after reading that teenagers rarely desist.
Overwhelmed, I am so relieved for you. I hope to hear many more stories from the parents of desisters this year, and I hope hope hope that one of them will be from me.
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Thanks for the nice words above, Overwhelmed. So glad you can take a breath, now, and help your kid move forward with all the tasks of development that go into becoming an adult.
And neverfallingforit — yeah, it WOULD be pivotal, to have some sort of decent research. Look, I’m a pragmatist, you know? If someone did a legit study and it was revealed that 90% or some other high number of these “sudden onset post-social-media-binge” teens (especially girls) really DO persist, even if not encouraged with social transition and given blockers/hormones/surgery, I’d pay attention to that.
I’d suck it up and push down the grief and get on with it somehow, just hoping for the best. (Even though, deep in my heart, I would always find it a sad and wrong and dangerous course of action. I’m enough of a biological essentialist to know that I’m never going to actually believe that cutting off healthy body parts and messing so radically with a finely tuned endocrine system can be a right treatment for a psychological condition.)
If such a study indicated that these putative post-transitioned FTMs were having good lives long-term, were not at high risk of self-harming or suicide, were not dealing with major health issues, were finding jobs, having satisfying relationships, making some positive contributions to humankind? Then I would have to say to my kid: “honey, I’ll never truly understand this and I’ll always have grave doubts, but you are an adult, and you have to live your life the way you think it’s going to make you happy.”
But nobody’s doing a study like that, and I don’t think anyone’s going to. The kids ARE the study — the ones now being transitioned (or at least puberty-blocked) in gender clinics, and the ones whose parents aren’t on board and are practicing various kinds of holding actions. One hopes, practicing compassionate degrees of that. And maybe getting some psych assistance to at least deeply examine why so much unhappiness with the natal body.
Unfortunately the latter bit’s not going to happen for my kid, because we live in one of those states where counseling that has anything to do with questioning gender identity statements is now lumped in with homosexual ‘conversion/reparative’ therapy. In my state, it’d be illegal now for a counselor to discuss this with my kid with any level of encouragement regarding comfort/re-identification with the natal body. All they can now say is: “you say you’re trans, ergo you’re trans. so let’s get on with facilitating your new life.”
The kids are the study. The results will come. Not fast enough, but … inevitably, they will come. And then we’ll all know a lot more than we know now. We’ll either be affirmed in our caution, or we’ll be proved to have been obstructive and harmful and wrong, and we’ll have to ask our kids’ forgiveness. All I can do at this point is research the facts, consider history, take the path that allows me to sleep at night, and keep trying to do the best I can for my beloved kid in such a confusing world.
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I’m with you, Puzzled. But you know, even if somebody does such a study (although I think we’d want not just one, but multiple, replicated studies run not just by the “gender specialists” with their confirmation bias, but also by others without a personal or financial stake in the outcome), it’ll be far too late for our own kids. Because the key word in your hypothetical study is “long term.” I don’t have trouble believing that a young person might be on a post-transition high for quite some time. There are multiple goals to reach via multiple surgeries, a culture which cheers every new transitioner, and a youthful body can take a lot of abuse. What criterion would be used for long-term success? How many years? It’s an existential question, really, because one person might define “success” and “happiness” as 5 years post-transition, while another might say 30 years. How would regret be measured? Most current studies haven’t looked at long-term outcomes for adults, let alone kids, the new frontier in transgenderism.
I keep coming back to “do no harm.” Since no one knows the answer to these questions, and won’t for a long time, there is no other way to look at this except today’s kids are being experimented on. As you say they ARE the study. But they aren’t studying the kids who haven’t already been herded into the gender clinics, as you mention. Will they persist in ID’ing as “trans” despite our not agreeing to medical transition? I can’t see anyone systematically studying OUR kids, or the desisters, or the detransitioners coming out of the woodwork. The natural control groups aren’t even on the radar. Since it is politically incorrect, and even illegal in some places (like your state) to refuse “treatment” to any young person who claims to be trans, there won’t be a control group to be studied at all. They can’t be recruited as study subjects, because it’s now considered “unethical” to leave trans-identified kids alone without intervention.
Doesn’t this mean systematic, replicable controlled studies will never happen? Yes, we’ll be able to see which of those transitioned kids grow up to be happy being sterilized and subjected to multiple surgeries and drugs, but we won’t get to know how they compare to the trans-identified kids whose parents didn’t haul them into clinics.
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Yeah, I live in such a state, too. It is the worst feeling. And, now, as I’m revealing all the truly troubled issues in my daughter’s past (that she abused her sisters physically, emotionally, and verbally) and hit ALL OF US and has deep-seated and long-standing control issues and is a liar and very narcissistic. everyone sighs and says, “Do YOU have support?” Except, I don’t WANT support. I don’t want pity. I don’t want to be told I’m grieving. I want some professionals to HELP MY KID. At the least, try to help her understand why she feels this way. Try thinking that waiting is not the same as refusing. That giving a kid a chance to stay healthy and not make irreversible choices until they might have an inkling of the actual consequences is an ethical thing.
But, no. The only good thing is they can’t legislate that PARENTS have to buy this shinola.
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Not even sharing a few articles? Or trading articles with your child? I would be very wary of a therapist who didn’t allow a non-verbal #exchange# of information. Please see my posts above. Best wishes.
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Great post!
My son told my mother last week, she talked to her therapist this Monday. Guess what the therapist said…
There’s nothing you can do, and why are you upset about it?
???
I really don’t understand how this mass delusion has gotten so far.
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I’m almost more upset by the glibness of the ‘why are you upset’ than by the ‘there’s nothing you can do.’
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Similar to my own experience. I was told (over the phone–before the therapist had met my daughter), “There’s nothing we can do. And you must be so SCARED” said in a condescending tone. It was meant to comfort, but it only made me angry and suspicious. Really? You know my kid is trans and you know how I feel about it how?
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So sorry that you and your mother are on the receiving end of such hurtful comments. That they are coming from a therapist is inexcusable in my opinion.
I believe these therapists have good intentions, but their social justice ideologies get in the way of them doing their jobs. Not sure you saw this post or not, but ThirdWayTrans recently had a good analysis on this phenomenon: http://thirdwaytrans.com/2015/12/18/social-justice-and-gender-therapy/#comments
ThirdWayTrans posts about “Alternate ways to think about gender dysphoria, gender identity, retransition, detransition and transgender issues from a former trans woman and psychology grad student.” His blog is very thoughtful, informative, and may be helpful to you since he writes from a male perspective.
Wishing you luck with your son.
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Thanks for reminding me of that post, overwhelmed. i also think it’s excellent and I’m going to print it out and give it to the therapists and psychiatrist at the outpatient program my daughter is currently attending. it might not last long, though, since I spent an hour in a family group therapy session where my kid attacked me and told bald-faced lies about me to about 15 perfect strangers. Ugh. They told me they focused on teaching coping and communication skills, but it appears they also think they’re saving our family by trying to gaslight me.
In other news (sorry for the rant), my daughter yelled suicide twice over the holidays and got two trips to the ER and the psych wards of two local hospitals. On the second ER trip, a nurse came in and he started talking around a topic, “So, did, uh, did you have a roommate when you were hospitalized last time? Where you in a shared room with a boy or a girl?” I immediately asked to speak outside.
“We need to deal in reality here. That is my DAUGHTER and she is FEMALE and she has a VAGINA. She is a teenager and she is NOT, under any circumstances, to room, in a hospital, with a boy. FULL STOP. Do you understand me? Because, you know what with the vagina and being a girl, she could be raped and/or she could get pregnant. So, stop playing along with her delusion.”
This is where we’re at, people. You take your troubled kid to the ER and they’re so twisted in this area, they ask a troubled kid if she should be a roommate with a boy or a girl. Awesome.
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Katiesan, I feel so much frustration and outrage on your behalf. A vulnerable teenage girl having a psychiatric emergency, and the hospital staff would even CONSIDER putting her in a room with a male, who also has psychiatric issues? How hard it must be for you in the midst of all this to stay strong and be a voice of reason to protect your daughter.
I’ll bet most people who blithely support the new US executive orders and “guidelines” erasing women’s safe spaces never think of scenarios like your family’s. If more people knew what’s at stake here, I have to think we would see more pushback. The latest news that women’s shelters must soon accept any man who says he “identifies” as a woman is on the same level of insanity. People who live on the street and end up homeless frequently have multiple issues–PTSD, mental health issues–but shelter employees won’t even be able to raise questions. This has to stop.
https://gendertrender.wordpress.com/2016/01/06/hud-proposed-regulation-forces-homeless-women-and-girls-to-bunk-and-bathe-with-men-who-claim-to-feel-psychologically-female-january-19-deadline-for-public-comment/
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Katiesan, you have such righteous anger. No need to apologize for your rant. What a nightmare of a situation.
If there are any medical professionals reading this, I implore you to push for change. Many families like Katiesan’s are being completely devastated.
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katiesan,
I couldn’t find a “reply” button under either of your posts on this thread, so I hope you see this.
I’m not a mom, but reading about what your daughter, and really your entire family is going through due to her problems and behavior reminds me of my adolescence. I didn’t have the exact same issues; I had a rather severe eating disorder, very few friends, and I often treated my parents poorly.
I’m thirty years old now. It’s been a long road. Things still aren’t easy, but I’m a world away from the problems that plagued my adolescence. I’ve always felt super-bad about the way I treated my parents, and wish so badly I could take that back. It’s unbelievable to me what I’ve done to them.
The eating disorder and body image issues that were so severe during adolescence are also gone most of the time. I never would have believed anyone who told me my life would be where it is today.
Adolescence can be unbelievably hard for some girls. Granted, I still struggle with mental health issues, but I am not in the same amount of pain I was in then. Of course, there are no guarantees in life, but I really think if your daughter can make it to her mid-twenties, she will find herself in a much better place.
I’m not a mom, but reading about what your daughter, and really your entire family is going through due to her problems and behavior reminds me of my adolescence. I didn’t have the exact same issues; I had a rather severe eating disorder, very few friends, and I often treated my parents poorly.
I’m thirty years old now. It’s been a long road. Things still aren’t easy, but I’m a world away from the problems that plagued my adolescence. I’ve always felt super-bad about the way I treated my parents, and wish so badly I could take that back. It’s unbelievable to me what I’ve done to them.
The eating disorder and body image issues that were so severe during adolescence are also gone most of the time. I never would have believed anyone who told me my life would be where it is today.
Adolescence can be unbelievably hard for some girls. Granted, I still struggle with mental health issues, but I am not in the same amount of pain I was in then. Of course, there are no guarantees in life, but I really think if your daughter can make it to her mid-twenties, she will find herself in a much better place.
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Cosima, thank you for your comment. I am glad that you have mostly come out the other side from your own struggles.
Honestly, it must be pretty ugly in her head since she is so blatantly manipulative for such minor things. I have no choice but to keep at this and keep trying to figure out what her real problems are.
I hope she comes out the other side. I hope she wakes up to the fact that if she doesn’t start doing some real work on herself, nothing is going to change.
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Please, parents–when you have conversations with nurses, doctors, school admins, record them!! Check the laws in your state. Some states are “one consent” states where you can record a phone or in person conversation without telling the other person (you must be part of the conversation). Some states require you to inform someone you are doing this. But do it! Document, document, document.
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I think this is a good idea, but I wonder where someone would report one of these conversations. The guidelines and laws I have seen seem to be encouraging these very discussions. The TransgenderTrend blog has some recent posts up about legislation in the UK and United States:
http://www.transgendertrend.com/transgender-legislation/
I’m unaware of any rules that are protecting the right of parents (with beliefs similar to my own) in their interactions with medical professionals. I would sincerely be interested in learning otherwise, though.
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Thank you for that link overwhelmed, it may be something he’ll listen to if I can get him to read it. He’s very into telling me he has based his decision on “peer reviewed” studies of transition as the only means of treating his dysphoria.
His primary concern when he selected a therapist was that they could write him his hormone treatment letter. I believe he made the decision that it was NOT a decision before he even sought psychological help. And he went directly for the validation. Which of course, he received. This all took place while he was out of our “liberal” state working a job in a “conservative” state. While on the job the conversation of Jenner came up and one of his coworkers stated that Jenner and all the other “freaks” should be lined up and shot. (Yes, quite horrible, but something I’ve heard countless times working in male dominated industries)
He internalized the injustice of the statement and it solidified his inclusion in that group. He is a very moral person and strangely his morality has put a layer of concrete over his already stony visage on the subject.
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I hope that your son will not only search for the pros, but also the cons of transitioning. It makes sense to get information from both sides before making such a big decision (especially the risks of cross-sex hormones and surgeries). I don’t know your son, but at his age he may be somewhat more amenable to this suggestion (if presented in an emotion-free, “I’m just concerned about you” kind of way).
If he is looking strictly for validation, though, he will find that in spades. The Internet is full of echo chambers that encourage each other. Unfortunately all those people busy validating him aren’t looking out for his best interests.
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Nor do they know him.
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I still hope I’ll have a child before I’m too old, but since becoming so trans-skeptical over this past year, I’m kind of worried about a potential child falling into the trans trap thanks to some kindergarten teacher’s suggestion or binge-watching YouTube videos. Ever since I could remember, I always wanted to raise my future kids in as gender-neutral a way as possible, like dressing them in sensible clothes instead of frilly dresses for girls and football or train designs for boys, and letting them play with all sorts of toys. I don’t even want to find out the sex until the moment of birth, not just because I’m old-fashioned and like the surprise, but because it’ll be helpful in avoiding sex-stereotyped toys and clothes by a baby shower or other gifts.
These days, you never can tell if some supposedly well-meaning friend or teacher might think a boy who plays with dolls or a girl who plays with trucks HAS to be trans, and you need to “fully transition” the child or risk suicide. I’m glad I was smart enough to avoid the pool party my university had for trans people and their allies awhile back! I’ve only met one trans person on campus in all the years I’ve been there, an obvious guy in a dress and with long hair. I’m not sure how far along he is in absorbing the media narrative or if he wants access to women’s bathrooms and such, though I once heard him talking about plans to legally change his name.
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Carre-Anne, most, if not all, of us parents were completely blindsided by this trans development. You already know what to watch out for, so you’ll be able to be better prepared.
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Have you considered having a tag for desisting? It may be useful when parents come here asking about this topic, or to debunk the claim that teenagers never desist.
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Sigh. Yeah. Tagging my posts is a “blog maintenance” task I need to get to. But great suggestion. Will get on it.
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WRT the comments about homosexual reparative therapy being illegal and trans issues falling under it:
1. Our elected representatives, the media, and the general public definitely need to know about the concerns presented here. Most people never know about this side of things and are simply trying to be good, liberal SJWs, expanding people’s rights. They don’t realize that they are harming people. I can not overstate the importance of sharing your personal stories with your elected representatives, and drawing a connection to these new laws. Ask for help in modifying or repealing the law. The way the stories are told here is very persuasive.
2. We need to challenge this law on Constitutional grounds. The 1st Amendment gives people the right to speak, even when that speech is unpopular. How can they say professionals are no longer allowed to speak their honest professional opinion and now must tow some party line? How is that Constitutional? It is not, and the laws will be struck down upon a legal challenge.
3. The main issue, is that trans is organized, and we are not. They have a slick marketing machine and a big budget for getting their narrative out. They also have flashy, media hungry celebrities like Jenner. They are riding the coattails of the LGB movement. The counter-narrative is spoken by politically unorganized people, with little media access or political clout. We need a national or international organization that can concentrate on raising awareness about the counter-narrative. This narrative includes: desisting, detransition, regret, suicide, mental illness, and thankfully, sometimes coming out of the other side and accepting natal sex. Many teens do outgrow this. Trans is a fad, driven by social media. Transactivists focus on distorting brain sex science studies claiming they somehow prove a biological basis for trans ideology. This is untrue. They cherry-pick and come up with far-reaching conclusions that go beyond the scope of the study. Many people do not have a science education, and are persuaded by the false science and big words. We need to spread knowledge of the psycho-social side of the story, where these ideas are spread by social media, in a social contagion phenomena. Why has there been such a huge upswing in people claiming trans, when this was virtually unheard of 40-50 yrs ago? Our genes do not change appreciably in such short time spans. What did change is exposure to certain narratives via modern communication methods. Vulnerable people have always been suggestible, especially kids and teens.
Thanks to everyone for sharing your stories.
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All good ideas. I think it is ideal that we get our stories out there, but it is hard for many. They feel so overwhelmed, so battered by all that is going on, that there isn’t a lot of energy left to go to battle.
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There’s starting to be at least SOME professional pushback. I’m heartened by the number of non-anonymous professional comments logged on this open letter related to the ouster of Ken Zucker and the recent closure of the Toronto Centre for Addiction and Mental Health (CAMH)’s Child and Adolescent Gender Identity Clinic. These commenters correctly identify the high level of sociopolitics driving treatment of gender nonconforming kids and teens at this point — contrary to the push for ‘evidence-based’ treatment everywhere else in medicine. http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/boardoftrustees-CAMH
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And in coordination with this, Dr. James Cantor, PhD, has compiled a list of studies which support the fact that most trans-identified kids desist. See my Tumblr post (with link to Cantor) about that here:
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Alice Dreger has written about the closure of CAMH and the political reasons for it’s closure and sacking of Dr. Zucker.
It is very worth reading.
http://alicedreger.com/gendermad
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4thwave and atranswidow, thank you for the information and links. Maybe the closure of CAMH will be a catalyst for the medical field to wake up to the negative influence of trans activists? We can only hope.
I enjoyed Alice Dreger’s Gender Mad article. Within the article is a link to a Wired interview with Jess, who is not transgender as an adult, but when younger was gender-non-conforming, attracted to females (and likely would have been diagnosed with gender dysphoria if she had grown up now).
Jess stated that: “I wish someone had worked with me on body image and my relationship to my body, on how my body displays gender and how I can convey gender in a way that makes sense for me.”
I thought this was pretty profound and likely what would benefit most of our children. I just wish it was easier to find professionals willing to do this work.
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This is awesome. Almost at 300 as of this writing. Love that these doctors are coming together like this. I think this is what needs to happen–grouping together, safety in numbers. I hope it will lead to change.
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Thank you overwhelmed. I have hope for my daughter. Currently trying to find a good therapist in the Kansas City area who will help my daughter work on her core issues of anxity and depression. The trans is merely a symptom in my opinion.
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Totally agree, I think a transgender identity in our kids often masks other problems. I hope you are able to find a therapist. Good luck with your daughter.
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Thanks overwhelmed for this post. This story reminds me so much of my younger sister, it could have been written by someone in my family. We are all overwhelmed. My sister is 19 and has some mental health problems and has been heavily influenced by the tumblr and youtube trans communities. (I’m a lesbian and have spent time on these online lgbt communities and I know how incredibly toxic they are.) After reading this story I have hope that at some point she’ll get the help that she needs.
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D.S., I hope your sister will get the help she needs too. Wishing your family all of the best.
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I am a parent in the trenches of this struggle. What you said hit the nail on the head!!!
I pray for the same outcome as you. This situation totally SUCKS!!!!!
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I hope your daughter comes to the same conclusion as mine, too. There is no magic solution to this situation. It takes time for our children to work through this. We can only try to provide a safe space for it to occur and hope for the best.
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I am also in this situation, with one child already transitioned FtM and one voicing that he has gender dysphoria. Both attracted to the (their original) opposite sex. No signs of this for either of them as they grew up. I am confused and sad. Questions are interpreted as being unsupportive.
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Sorry that you are going through this, Victoria. It is sad that your concerns/questions are being viewed as unsupportive. It is quite the mind#$%^ that parents who are cautious about their children receiving medical interventions are labeled bigots/abusive. It wouldn’t happen with any other ailment, only trans. The upside-down nature of all this IS downright confusing and incredibly stressful.
I wish you luck navigating this situation with your children.
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Is anyone located in Boston who would know a reputable councilor or psychologist who can handle this situation and my encourage it. (Not sure where my original long post went. Hopefully it went through). But we are hitting roadblock after roadblock w doctors who are just seeing me as the non supportive parent rather then the concerned parent who knows her child.
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So long story short since it looks like my last post didn’t go through. I am a mom of a 13 year old who had recently stated she’s a boy. Never in the 13 years has she been anywhere near a boy… She even owned half of Sephora only 6 months ago. Unfortunately she has learned what to say and has put fears in every professional due to her cutting and threats of suicide to the point they want me to accept it and move on. I refuse. This is not my child. This has all taken place after binge watching YouTube and tumbler. If only I could go back in time. I am scared…. I do not know where to turn. We have gone through many councilors (working with another right now whom I think this is starting to be out of her zone) and all of them encourage it. If she can *poof* into a boy one day why can’t she poof back another. Help!!!
We also hkmeschool and have for the past two years. She has lost friends because of this. Although she never really was able to keep friends. But I fear of sending her to school as she wants to announce she’s a boy.
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Hello everyone,
I have to say if your daughters are in high school and they are still not sure I would definitely at this point vet colleges and see what type of communities they offer. My daughter who still believes that she is male and is fully wanting to transition to a man ran away after her freshman year of college. A person that she met in college who presents as a man as well who is 27 took her from our family but we were not home. She offered our daughter a place to stay and is helping her with college expenses and I’m not going to mention how and if you would like to email me I can tell you how. It is a very scary situation. Meanwhile we are still trying to walk alongside her and love her and are anxiously waiting for her to begin speaking to us. Apparently unbeknownst to us this has been in her head for a very long time and she was coached into not talking to us by several online communities, teacher activists and 2 professional psychologist. The coaching took place at a Catholic all girl high school by the psychologist who work there and another staff member. Another staff member tried to get our daughter alone and is now married to a trans. These children tend to go straight towards what they’re curious about in College and they will. And they will do it behind your backs especially if they know that you are already not on board with the situation. Social workers are also on hand at the school to counsel them and to give them information on how to be financially separated from their parents. ” religious communities at the schools are also very active in trying to recruit through the LGBT communities especially in the art majors . Now I am sure most of this is probably illegal and they are finding ways around the system and I wish this could be stopped but it cannot. So at least until you are sure that your daughter is out of the woods I would not recommend going away to school, I would recommend commuting so you may keep a sharp eye on your daughters. If I had known that this was the case we would likely not have sent our daughter away to school. Now it’s really up to her to figure this out for herself and she has completely been isolated from her family and surrounded by unopposing views. Now I can tell you for those that don’t believe in God or that this could be not be something evil but I can also tell you that for me it’s been a very spiritual experience. I feel like our daughter was well on her way to a beautiful future as she never ever once said that she even had dysphoria. She had crushes on boys. We were treating her for depression and anxiety. Anxiety which was brought on by being bullied at the school and and her childhood. Also there are ways to block your computer and I would suggest that you do that and you can block your different sites that you know that are trouble sites. Open DNR is an excellent choice and it is cheap. I would also take away phones at night and just do that is a family rule for all the kids.. We also cut off our internet at 10:30 or 11 p.m. so they could not stay up at night. Computers were put outside the bedroom door with the phones aND nother aplowed in their rooms.. We were able to find a psychologist to help our younger children cope with the situation and according to her if you see a psychologist that has gender references on their business card then they are basically culprits and to steer clear of them. If you are the parent of a minor you have every right to know exactly what conversations are being said in that room. That my daughter psychologist who ended up being activists did not tell me this in fact before I said anything they basically said that I needed to trust them and if they told me the nature of the conversations that that would break the trust and it would prevent them from doing their jobs very well. This is the way they skirt around the parents wishes. After all what do we know? We raise them we know their medical history and who cares right period it seemed to be important when we were giving them shots or when they were sick as children but not important if they wish to transition. It makes no sense and is clearly very dangerous. Good luck to all of you. For those who are interested in a spiritual way speak to their kids, father Schmidt is good. if you Google him he has a great statement about transgenderism. At this point I believe the spiritual end is the only way that they will come out of it aND of great comfort. Our daughter is a good girl. She was poisoned at a very vulnerable time her life.. Please pray for us.
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Sorry for the typos.
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