A “sinister mental trap”: One man’s journey back to himself

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Potentilla is a detransitioned male who spends his days farming, making gardens, practicing herbalism, and reading Carl Jung. He is interested in history, human nature, and the occult, and greatly enjoys giggling with strangers, the utter improbability of life, taking long walks, and making music with friends. He is available to interact in the comments section of this post. Potentilla can also be reached at potentillacinquefoil@gmail.com, where he is happy to discuss these issues privately with concerned parents and people contemplating transition or detransition.

by Potentilla

I was born male and lived for the first five or so years of my life totally OK with that. As I got older and was taught postmodernism, white guilt and misandry, I started to hate my male body and wanted my maleness to be destroyed. I became suicidal and practiced self harm, including towards my genitals. I wanted to magically turn into a girl, and thus be redeemed.

Growing up, it was hard for me to conform to the norms of American masculinity. Part of this is that my dad is a reflective and empathetic man, and so my natural model is someone who himself doesn’t necessarily conform to gender norms. Nevertheless, I was ok with my body until maybe the age of 19, when I realized I’m attracted to other men and am both a “bottom” and somewhat swishy. Around 20 I had multiple crises; I moved to a gay hippie commune, I broke up with my first serious boyfriend, I did too many drugs, became homeless, and had several very confusing sexual relationships with women.

Slowly I came to believe that I was a repressed woman. It is a testament to my credulity that I could honestly assess my own life situation, and yet come to that conclusion. But that is exactly what happened. Trans let me explain away all my problems with a new and compelling narrative. This promise held enormous emotional appeal. At the time, I was living in a trans/genderqueer space where there was a cult-like atmosphere in regard to transitioning. Being trans made you an insider and conferred upon you sympathy, respect, and resources. Being merely gay was frowned upon.

For the past 10 years ago or so, I’ve “lived as a woman.” For the first 8 years of that, I was on cross sex hormones, when I began to use herbs to manage my health.  I had an orchiectomy about 7 years ago. After my surgery, every punk house was open for me to live in. I had become a protected class.

Even though I didn’t pass as a natal female, being trans made my life easier to navigate socially. People seem much more comfortable with a somewhat feminine man becoming a transwoman than a somewhat feminine male owning his maleness. It is fascinating that this is the case, that it was and is scarier for me not to pretend I’m a woman.

So, I had some very compelling reasons to transition, those being:

  1. unprocessed trauma concerning my gender
  2. poor mental health and poor reality testing
  3. social pressure
  4. social rewards
  5. a postmodern ideology that rewards transition

I believe that the trans movement has qualities that make it very similar to a cult. I became trans for the very same reason that people join cults; and similarly to those who escape cults, I’ve found profound healing in my slow path towards detransition.

Now, almost ten years later, it is clear that I am not a woman. In fact, it is obvious that I am still very much a male, but now with breasts and mutilated genitalia. That is an uncomfortable position to be in; not only was I mistaken; everyone knows it. But his uncomfortable reality is still preferable to the intense self-delusion and narcissism that I lived in and with for many years.

The Curse of Trans

While there is a certain temptation to accept all of this as personal failings; while there are certainly many ways that I have been weak and unstable, it doesn’t feel particularly genuine to try to explain my immersion into trans as solely a personal choice and experience. To understand trans sensu lato means understanding the ways it resembles a cult. I transitioned only after heavy indoctrination into genderist ideology. Most pertinent was the pernicious “cis” and “trans” dichotomy.

I believe this binary ideology to be a very profound curse to susceptible individuals. “Cis” is defined as someone who is okay with their body as it is, while “trans” means someone who isn’t okay with their gendered body, regardless if they physically transition or not. Given this definition, most people have at certain points of their lives been functionally trans. This is usually especially pronounced at puberty, and it is horrifyingly predictable that we’re now seeing a trend of trans children, given the intersection of pubescent dysphoria and genderist ideology.

When I encountered this false dichotomy, naturally I put myself on the side of “trans” because I have a long history of hating my gendered body. Once I accepted this as true, I was locked into the certain path of claiming I was a woman. This led to faith-based beliefs that “gender is innate” and “I am a woman,” which in turn led to the blind faith that “hormone replacement therapy will solve my problems” and “I’ll be so much happier after I’m castrated and no longer male.” This was compounded by the widespread belief that transgender feelings grow worse with time and inevitably lead to insanity or suicide if there is not medical intervention.

And away I went, my mind totally taken with genderist ideology, with full faith that transitioning was the only way to save my life.

This is why I consider “trans” to be a curse. I imagine the evil trans witch standing over the gender-nonconforming children lost in the woods, reassuring them that “cis people are comfortable with their bodies and trans people aren’t. I can help you become at home in your own body” as the children follow her deeper into the woods to be transformed. What the children don’t realize is that they must pay for this with a piece of the glowing, golden ball that is in their hearts. Later, only a few become disillusioned and decide to retrieve the piece of their heart that they lost. They wander alone hither and thither in the dark woods for many years to find the sacred springs where they wash off their deception, fear and helplessness, and find that the golden ball never actually left. They are still themselves, only disfigured and disoriented by the deal they made with the evil witch. But they are finally able to leave the dark forest and again become part of the human family.

glowing heart

I’m open to the idea that some individuals need to transition to live their authentic selves. There may very well be folks who genuinely and beautifully find themselves in transition. That being said, though, I believe it is inevitable that these stories of self-discovery through sex change, no matter how true they are or beneficial to the individual, contribute to the destructive myth of the trans/cis binary. I don’t want to generalize too much from my own experience, but I also strongly believe that transition does profound harm, even when it does help. People have the right to transition, but I also believe that the entire gender identity movement has become unfathomably destructive, especially to gender nonconforming young people who, for the most part, would almost certainly otherwise be homosexuals. There are areas of subtlety which I’m not sure how to explore in this regard, and they are beyond the scope of this essay.

Sense of Self

During the time I believed I was a woman, I enjoyed every step of transition, because it gave me an identity. I didn’t know who I was and a transgender narrative gave me a handle to understand myself. Rather than needing to take care of the wounded parts of my self, I created an entirely new persona, and I played that part every moment of every day.

This worked as a great solution for a time; I did a good job playing that part, rather than living as my authentic self, and was thus shielded from the vicissitudes of the world. This is of course textbook narcissism, which makes me wonder if trans is as much a cult of narcissism as a cult of gender.

With time however, my authentic self was nonetheless nurtured by my experiences and I began to become more genuine. This transformation had three parts:

1) Leaving the Trans Cult

After a nasty breakup, I left a queer land project and LGBT community where postmodern Marxist ideology was very dominant. I constantly self-censored to fit in with the group. My own political leanings tend towards Burkean conservatism, so I was more or less lying to myself and others. I attended mandatory sensitivity training which had the feel of a political indoctrination meeting. Almost every day, I ritualistically confessed my guilt as a white person in conversation with my peers, and they did the same with me. Over time I began to feel an actual intense guilt. And with that, I began to wake up to the fact that this sort of politic was bad for my mental health.

So after my nasty breakup, I left this queer community and got a live-in job at a farm. My coworkers there were much more free thinking, and I began to find it easier to think for myself. That year I worked 55-hour weeks and read about 60 books (including Spengler, Odum’s Ecology textbook, Marcus Aurelius, Homer, and more). This study, and the new milieu with new friends, allowed me the opportunity to learn that I’m strong and capable living on my own, and my worldview was massively expanded.

2) Going off Hormones

About 9 months after leaving the trans cult, I stopped taking hormones, and began taking herbs, and studying them, to maintain my health instead. I could pursue a passion that connects me to my inner self while showing me that I’m not dependent on maintaining a trans identity to meet my own health needs.

medicinal herbs

I’ve also developed skills which have helped many other people. In turn, I saw people valuing me for something deeper than my identity. I am very passionate about plants and have been my entire life. I am also open and spiritual in my psychological orientation. This makes the study and practice of herbalism deeply rewarding to my authentic self, and helped me become strong enough to escape from living mostly out of my trans identity.

3) Detransition

After leaving the queer land projects, I fell into several other social milieus where thoughts were heavily policed. By this point I had already stopped believing in the idea of transition, but kept up appearances for social benefit–and that social benefit was huge. Certain people would hire me because I was perceived as trans. I could find places to live with queer folks largely on account of my identity. Living in these environments, which were well stocked with self-appointed thought police, was bad for me, and I began contemplating leaving. Near the end of this time I developed debilitating chemical sensitivities, and decided my best bet was to live with my parents for a time. At that point, the entire trans narrative dissolved, and just as quickly, my chemical sensitivities became very easily manageable.

Some Closing Thoughts

Over the years, I’ve known dozens of trans people. Most had reasons that were less convincing than my own for transition, and as we’ve seen, my own justifications were rather feeble. This leads me to believe that, by and large, trans is a disingenuous ideology that is a current mass hysteria. It is also clearly something of an unintentional eugenics program against gender nonconforming folk. The entire enterprise makes me feel sick. It has become trendy to commit oneself to lifelong hormone therapy and surgical mutilation. I was not able to correctly appraise the situation at the time I became trans and deeply regret the decision now.

Going a little deeper, trans is profoundly sexist and actually creates less diversity in expression. I went from an authentic, studious, awkward, somewhat feminine man to performing full time as a trans woman. Eventually my authentic self reasserted itself, and now I’m slowly moving towards more integration. The trans narrative does much more than merely normalize mental illness; it creates mental illness. I would have never transitioned if I hadn’t been wounded by postmodernism and then given an escape hatch in trans. The narrative made me crazy just as much as my own predisposition made me vulnerable to it.

My sense is that no one wants to hear the voices of detransitioners until it is too late. My sincere hope is that some people who are considering transition, as well as parents with “trans” children, might read my essay and choose a brighter path than that of transition. Please learn from my mistakes and consider other options. Most dysmorphia goes away with time. The entire trans narrative is a sinister mental trap which is profoundly harmful. There are infinitely better ways to deal with the universal experiences of dissatisfaction and desire to be someone else.

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182 thoughts on “A “sinister mental trap”: One man’s journey back to himself”

  1. on this day of the March for Science, i would like to point out that the science behind the transgender lobby is NOT evidence-based and verified science….this is one field where emotion and politics and money has trumped careful and rational medical investigation. my sister has lain in a hospital bed for the past thirty years because the transsexual lobby promoted the use of cross-sex hormones and surgeries to promote a homophobic agenda. there is no evidence that there are transgender brains, or indeed biological processes. the studies promoted by the translobby are not backed up by hard and peer-reviewed evidence in many cases, and in other are just poppycock! so i say March for Science, indeed, and keep science, not belief, at the forefront of the social experiment that is transhumanism, and not cherry-pick the so-called evidence for shows like ABC’s interview with Bruce Jenner. listening to the police helicopters chop overhead this morning in montreal to oversee the March for Science!!

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    • “this is one field where emotion and politics and money has trumped careful and rational medical investigation.” Please see the history of psychiatry for further instances.

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      • This whole movement is rooted in psychiatry – it was psychiatrists who started validating the whole concept of ‘changing sex’ – for gay men anyway… even while they were still incarcerating women in asylums for life for lesbianism, promiscuity, being the victims of rape or domestic abuse or just on the word of their abusive husbands etc etc..ad infinitum. i find it hard to believe its a coincidence that in the early days of this transition hokum, young gay men in the main, were the only group of deluded patients certain psychiatrists turned the basic principles of psychiatry upside-down to validate. it says a lot more about psychiatric medicine than it does about the patients.

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  2. Thanks so much for this heartfelt, personal account of your experience into the abyss and out the other side. I hope one day my soon to be 17 year old daughter daughter with ASD is willing to read these accounts that may help critically question her belief that she is trans because she hates having breasts.

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    • As the parent i hope you stay strong in reality and continue knowing her feelings don’t come from a place of truly feeling like she’s a man. I also used to hate my breasts as a teenager, only realized well into my mid twenties through reading lots of feminist theory that what i hated was how sexually objectified these areas of my body were, how i internalized it to the point that i felt my womanhood was dirty and wrong instead of realizing what was dirty and wrong was how my womanhood was viewed by men. These things take time to learn and many women don’t learn, because real feminism beyond liberal feminist ideals of being pro makeup, pro prostitution, pro porn, pro everything that at the core harms women, is hard for most women to discover. One of the best things you can do to help her is maybe get her some books. Get her a book you know she wants as well as one of your choosing. Cordelia Fine’s Delusion of Gender would be great but given the title i think she would either not read it or read it with a very defensive attitude. Worth a shot though. Best of luck.

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      • Rafa,

        Thank you so much for your thoughtful response! Yes, I think being on the autism spectrum, hating change in general and despising what her secondary sex characteristics represent in a highly sexualized society is the core of the problem. She refuses to acknowledge any of this, even with her therapist BUT the good thing is she seems stuck on trying to force a new name and pronouns on everyone and is really not trying to physically alter her appearance or clothing. She looks like the girl I always knew just a really angry and uncomfortable version of her.

        She would definitely refuse to read the book you recommend BUT I wouldn’t and she is aware of how much I read on this subject. She recently was looking over my shoulder while we were looking up something entirely different online and saw that I had this link :http://www.feministcurrent.com/2017/04/14/autistic-kids-dont-need-mastectomies/ on my browser. I am hoping that I am planting seeds of doubt. I sent it to her therapist as well and she agreed it was a good article.

        Every day is a new day and I keep hoping the house of cards will blow down sooner rather than later!

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    • I can relate as my 17 yr old sounds very similar. I have not considered until recently that she might have Aspberger’s syndrome. But there are a few symptoms. Hard to know.

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      • At the end of the day, knowing she is on spectrum hasn’t helped with this issue, just makes it a little easier to understand how she processes things. She thinks she is right about everything.

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  3. If there’s anyway you could see if this author could contact my son, I’d be greatful. He believes however that anyone that detransitions wasn’t really trans in the first place. Another piece of the mind trap. Exposure and contact with someone that has been through this and made it back again may at least give him something to think about. I’m willing to try anything at this point. Thank you for this post.

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    • I think it’s best if you talk with your son. I mean, honestly, i can’t even begin to claim i know what’s best, I’m just letting you know another perspective, and here’s why. If you simply send your son this article he will hate read it and share it with his friends in a ‘look how horrible/ridiculous this is’. He won’t actually read in a way that will allow any of it to sink into him. So i think the best you can do is sit him down and be honest, say you have some questions, but prepare those questions in a way that is really intended for him to question himself. Ask him for his cooperation, tell him you just want to understand better, ask him to be open and thoughtful and tell him you will be as well, really frame it as an adult conversation. This article provides a great guide to do this with. You can ask him things like why he feels he’s a girl, then ask why the reasons he lists are girly things, ask what he thinks of being gay (if you think he may be). Just ask him questions in a way that challenges the very root of the trans ideologies. Don’t push it, just have a real, critical thinking time of discussion with him. Even if he seems to not have gained any insight through the conversation, it’s much more likely for him to walk out of it having had some real seeds of common sense planted in him that may grow slowly inside him, than if someone else were to talk to him or he were to read this article. I hope I’m not out of line in giving you these suggestions, best of luck.

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      • Thanks for the suggestion, that’s almost exactly what I did about a year ago. It didn’t work out. I agree that showing him articles has little if any positive effect. I tried showing him third way trans’ articles and that’s when I found out that my son believed that detransitioners weren’t “real” trans. He also said he’d only listen to licensed professionals.

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      • Has anyone had good results from showing trans children articles or videos? Since trans seems so attractive to intellectual types I thought if I ever tried it I would frame it as an intellectual challenge – “see if you can break this ideology” – but now I’m not so sure. I would suggest that as most see themselves as radicals, any appeal to convention or conformity is likely to fail. If you can let them know you hate capitalism and the patriarchy too, and make your critique from a radical feminist or classical Marxist position, you may stand a better chance. Conservative parents, take a deep breath and think of England. You’re doing it for your children. 😉

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      • I would suggest that as most see themselves as radicals, any appeal to convention or conformity is likely to fail. If you can let them know you hate capitalism and the patriarchy too, and make your critique from a radical feminist or classical Marxist position, you may stand a better chance. — Darkest Yorkshire

        Have you come across the term ‘terf’ yet (‘trans exclusionary radical feminist’)? If not, look it up, and you will see that these kids have all been thoroughly schooled in hatred and fear of ‘radfems’.

        Nowadays, on ‘trans’ and ‘queer’ Tumblr, where most of these kids get their ideas from, all ‘radfems’, without exception, are equated with ‘terfs’. Trying putting ‘radfem’ into the Tumblr search box and you’ll get the idea. (Some of the Tumblr ‘queer’ brigade also bracket lesbians with ‘terfs’ as automatic hate figures.)

        As for ‘classic Marxism’: good luck trying to get them to take that on board. These kids all parrot an extreme form of post-modernism. Any kind of materialist argument is dismissed with woolly blather about social constructs.

        Side note: These days I am never sure exactly what any given person means by ‘radical feminism’. In the eighties radical feminism was closely associated with the doctrine that patriarchy was the root cause and fundamental pattern of all inequality and oppression. (I didn’t, and don’t, buy that entirely.) But nowadays the term is widely used in a way that seems more encompassing and much less well defined.

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      • Trans ideology is an incredibly well insulated closed system (and I’m starting to realise that in my early years as a socialist I was probably equally fanatical). I have been reading identity politics stuff for years as I knew this was the new generation of politics and I had to be able to talk to ‘the kids’ (my similarity to Rick from The Young Ones continues to disturb me). Because of this I did take on some of their ways of thinking (and I admit they do some good work – I’ve never seen mental health discussed anywhere else like it is on Tumblr and Everyday Feminism). Because of this background –

        Me on first discovering this website: No I will not be a terf!
        Me two hours later: Crap I’m a terf.

        So there may be some hope, but I recognise I had years in another political tradition first. I’ve only recently started looking into radical feminism and I remain conflicted. How well did it work out in the eighties? How has it become broader? As far as I can tell it used to be against porn, prostitution, S&M, transsexuals – now it’s against porn, prostiution, BDSM, transgender. 🙂

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      • I’ve only recently started looking into radical feminism and I remain conflicted. How well did it work out in the eighties? How has it become broader? As far as I can tell it used to be against porn, prostitution, S&M, transsexuals – now it’s against porn, prostiution, BDSM, transgender.

        In Britain in the seventies and eighties radical feminism was at least as much about building things as it was about opposing anything: building women’s networks, women’s communities, women’s publishing houses, bookshops, magazines, setting up women’s centres, setting up women’s shelters, organising conferences, organising protests, establishing women’s studies as an academic discipline… Holding women’s discos, let me not forget those.

        Transsexuals were not a big issue in those days. There weren’t very many of them, and they were not politically organised — that did not begin until the early nineties. It now appears that Janice Raymond was prescient, but in 1979, when The Transsexual Empire was originally published, this wasn’t at all obvious.

        S&M, in my own experience, came up as an issue mainly among the lesbian community, where there was a visible S&M minority culture. Some radical feminist lesbians regarded opposition to S&M to be a defining issue, others were more relaxed about it.

        Things that radical feminists were ‘against’ included nuclear weapons – think Greenham Common; domestic violence – think Women’s Aid; rape – think Rape Crisis.

        The overarching issue that united radical feminists in the seventies and eighties was opposition to the patriarchy — male hegemony and control of resources (including the means of cultural representation) — and the violence against women that contributes to maintaining it.

        Nowadays many women seem to call themselves radical feminists on the basis that they don’t believe in the ‘female brain’, let alone that it can somehow exist in a male body; don’t believe surgeons can magically turn a male body into a female body (or vice versa); don’t believe transwomen are, in any full sense, women (if they are women in any sense at all); oppose the admission of transwomen to social and physical spaces dedicated to women, etc., etc. These are identified as ‘radfem’ positions by the transactivists and their allies. But in fact, the first three are rational positions, held by any thinking person, and the fourth may be, but is not necessarily, a feminist position: it could just as well be cultural. In other words, though radical feminists are likely to hold these positions, they are not positions that define radical feminism.

        If you want to know more about British feminism in the seventies and eighties, you might like to browse the online archive of the feminist magazine Spare Rib.

        For a specifically radical feminist approach, I recommend the archive of the magazine Trouble and Strife, published in Britain from 1983 to 2002. The Trouble and Strife website also contains some more recent articles, published direct to web. Several of these take on and unravel the conflicts and confusions around gender and transgenderism.

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      • Good history and explanation, thanks. I think Trouble and Strife is where I got the concept ‘gender zero’. Going to watch the Tour de Yorkshire now – it’s like a religious observance for us. 🙂

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      • Thank you for posting that link. I read their initial posts when 4thWaveNow originally posted them last year. There’s a lot of good content there and they’ve added articles since I’ve last been there. My battle is getting him to see any information with an open mind. I need to get one or two of his childhood friends on my (thus his) side, so they can present information. Maybe then, it won’t be discounted due to its source.

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  5. Potentilla -Thank you so much for writing this. I applaud your courage and appreciate the unique insights that you bring to the trans issue.

    This paragraph that you wrote is especially important and bears repeating:

    “I believe this binary ideology to be a very profound curse to susceptible individuals. “Cis” is defined as someone who is okay with their body as it is, while “trans” means someone who isn’t okay with their gendered body, regardless if they physically transition or not. Given this definition, most people have at certain points of their lives been functionally trans. This is usually especially pronounced at puberty, and it is horrifyingly predictable that we’re now seeing a trend of trans children, given the intersection of pubescent dysphoria and genderist ideology.”

    That statement — that binary ideology is dangerous to vulnerable kids — is exactly right. It seems that so many kids who are gay, lesbian, autistic, or in anyway nonconforming — are especially attracted to the trans narrative. And we parents have such little power when the rest of society — school, media, psychology, and medicine — just affirms their self-identity.

    My 16-year old daughter suddenly announced she was trans at the age of 13. There were no previous signs. I am convinced it was due to the contagion of school and social media, to which she was very susceptible because of her autism.

    We are in a bad place right now as she is more convinced than ever that this is true (as she receives continued validation from others) and is saving her money for testosterone and surgery. I am wondering if you have any advice for what, if anything, you can say to a child with such fixed beliefs. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

    Thank you again for writing.

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    • Seeing that she’s autistic i have no idea how to tackle dismantling the trans agenda for her. I know nothing about autism so I’m not sure how to best provide her information, if indirect or direct would be best. If you think it’s appropriate and havent tried it yet, I’d consider just having a real talk with her about it. No one knows her better than you, no one knows how she has conversations better than you, so use that to construct a sit down where the talk is careful to fall within her boundaries all while still challenging her. Parents think their kids don’t value their opinions, and sometimes that is true, but often kids do listen and carry your opinions with them. Awful example but i used to smoke weed in high school and the guilt i felt over it whenever i used the money my mom gave me to buy some really made me buy it less often. I knew it wasnt right for me to lie to her to get her hard earned 25 or 50 dollars, only to use it on something recreational that i got in such small amounts and lasted so little. My point being that they care what you think. It won’t be easy since she has everyone from National Geographic to famous celebrities supporting the trans agenda, but i think the best thing you can do for her is validate who she is now, without it coming across as you trying to limit her or pressure her into being a girl by society’s limiting stereotypes. Maybe find some movies or tv shows to watch with her that feature women who are gender non conforming. A lot of this entire contagion is because young girls don’t see themselves reflected in media. It’s rare to see an adult ‘tomboy’. Some of my family is black, including some of my cousins, and one of them as a teenager said she wished she were white. If it were easy for oppressed minorities to change, this contagion would spread further than young girls wanting to be boys, it would be young gay girls wanting to be straight, young black girls wanting to be white, and so on. Keep strong and know that you as the person who loves her the most in this world being informed and not blindly pushing her in the direction of hormones and drugs is already a huge, gigantic win for her that she will always be grateful to you for if or when one day in the future she gives up on this. All of you here who do your part as parents by educating yourselves on the matter, being supportive of your child but not supporting or enabling transition, are all being their biggest allies and heroes.

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    • Have her watch Carey Callahan’s videos on YouTube – she is a detransitioner and has this great video on loving your body the way it is – “What I love about my body these days (instead of David Bowie’s)”

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  6. Potentilla,

    Thank you for sharing the compelling story of how your found your authentic self. You provide a wonderful insight to the thought process of a person experiencing gender dysphoria. So much of your story resonates with what I see my 15YO experiencing as she struggles with her identity, self-worth and anxiety about what the future holds.

    It appears that in the end your parents were there for you. Many of this site’s subscribers are parents of kids experiencing gender identity issues. We love our kids and truly want to guide them towards a happy and productive adulthood. With that in mind, would you be willing/able to share how your parents reacted during your journey? When you initially questioned your gender identity, did they (or anyone in your life) offer a perspective that might have contradicted your conclusion that you were trans? Would you say that any of the alternative perspectives, resonated or made you question your trans identity? As you approached your decision to detransition, how did your family respond? I guess what I’m asking is what was the impact of your parents/family during both your transition and detransition?

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  7. You write very eloquently of your experience. Thank you so much for sharing your story with us: I know how hard it can be to admit you’ve ‘got something wrong’. THIS is bravery. I agree, the trans narrative is a cult, and it is drawing in vulnerable children. The more of us feel able to speak out about our experience with and within it, the more likely we are to be able to protect those who come after. I hope your life continues in it’s new, peaceful vein and that you continue to find joy with your herbs and plants.

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  8. JBro, Many thanks for your kind response. I feel for you and your daughter.

    absurdysphoria, I’d be willing to get in touch with with you and speak with your son, depending on the legality of the situation; I don’t want to get in trouble for “conversion therapy.” Drop me a line at potentillacinquefoil(at)gmail(dot)com

    GILAW, you’re so welcome!

    Fightingtogetherback, I think that your daughter may be described as being in a cult and be under the effects of mind control. I would read Steve Hassan’s Combating Cult Mind Control and try to apply what he says to the situation. Feel free to send me an email.

    Lifesnothtishard, my parents didn’t challenge me much when I transitioned, and were very supportive. They’ve been equally supportive as I’ve detransitioned. I was able to get out of the trans cult because they were there for me, but they didn’t try very hard to dissuade me, nor could they have.

    As I mentioned above I would suggest reading Steve Hassan’s Combating Cult Mind Control. I would be willing to make myself available to discuss this further.

    Lily M, many thanks!

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    • Private citizens who aren’t professional therapists don’t need to worry about being accused of “conversion therapy.” Luckily, we still have free speech in this country and people are free to speak their minds to each other on an informal basis.

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      • Thanks for mentioning this 4thwavenow. As I’ve mentioned before I fear trans activists, and more generally the authoritarian left. Neither of these groups seem to be very supportive of free speech, but you’re right; to a large degree we have and as they say “use it or lose it!”

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  9. Talking about the social acceptability of transition vs homosexuality is so important. Most people conflate the two constantly, it makes it difficult to discuss it meaningfully.

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    • I couldn’t agree more. The trend towards medicalizing gender non conformity frankly strikes me as something out of a cheesy sci-fi book. As someone who pretty much only likes Dune, Phillip K Dick, Octavia Butler and some post-industrial work (Earth Abides, Engine Summer and Star’s Reach are all superb) out of the entire canon of sci-fi, I think that the sci-fi transhumanist aesthetic is really hard to take.

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  10. potentilla – I feel as if I just read the words of a friend fresh from the battle field. I think there is a kind of social justice war out there, and those of us back from the cult side are learning how to live as ourselves again. I’ll probably write you an email but I just want to say bravo! Your story is one of hope for many of us gay & same-sex married folks who see what’s going on & find the scientism, technocracy, transhumanism, and willful eugenics (that are aimed especially at gays, bisexuals, and others who naturally don’t always fit the binary) of the transgender lobby very concerning.

    If you’re not familiar, Martin(e) Rothblatt, founder of Sirius Radio, and considered the richest ‘woman’ in America wrote a book about the transgender movement being a precursor to the transhumanist movement. Check it out. I wish you well, hope you do more research, and will write when I have more time.

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    • Thanks potentilla — love the name btw, one of my favorite plants.

      Your writing just points out for me something I feel in my gut — that the whole business of trying to erase your existing body and identity and substitute another is just deeply self-loathing and existentially wrong. I mean, spiritually wrong, if you want to use that terminology. The whole ideology relies on a theoretical split between the mind/body/spirit that IMO does not, in actuality, exist.

      The method takes a thing that is good — the gift of a functioning body — and denigrates it and encourages people to take terrible risks with it. Obviously people are free to do that, but what parent would want this for their child? What person would want this for anyone they love, in fact? Yet it is presented as the ultimate remedy — and beyond. It’s presented as a positive, affirmative, self-actualizing choice. Thus the reaction of a bunch of the folks here — we feel like we’re going crazy when we are told to celebrate something we believe is highly destructive to those we love. We feel stymied by the wholesale adoption of trans theory by the mainstream media, the med/psych/pharma folks, higher education. It’s nearly impossible to push back when our kids get a steady diet of “trans and you’ll feel great” from people they’re encouraged to see as helpers and authority figures.

      When will the tide turn?

      Wishing you all the best, potentilla. Thank you again for sharing your story.

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      • Your comments are really hit home with me. We are reeling as an extended family from the suicide of a trans teen. This kid was well into medical transition, but obviously living with severe depression and emotional pain (despite being sheltered from situations that might have been emotionally taxing). The kid’s parents were very much on board and affirming of the transition, and have basically requested that memories of the kid’s earlier life (prior to them finding their “authentic self”) should not be brought up or referred to either in the actual conversations or publicly, like social media. I greatly empathize with the loss these parents have experienced, but it’s as if they’re trying to errase most of their child’s life.

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      • Trinity76. Your remarks about the trans teen suicide are so sad. The parents are acting as if their original child had died and a new “authentic self” child had just appeared to take the place of the one who had grown up in their house. If the parents cannot themselves, and forbid others, to tell the history of this child that all lived through, how in the world is anyone to come to terms with, or understand what has happened? I feel for the parents, because this situation is so difficult and requires all involved to split and compartmentalize their memories and knowledge.

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      • Puzzled, I’m so glad you caught the botanical reference. I agree fully that transgenderism is spiritually wrong. I have no idea when the tide will turn, but hope that as more detransitioned people come forward a counter narrative will begin emerging that can help to keep people from going down this dark path.

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      • Wait, it’s a plant? I thought it was a contraction of ‘potential Atilla’! This is just like finding out the film Tokyo Godfathers isn’t about the Yakuza. 🙂

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      • Exactly. Mention Michael Jackson, or Joan Rivers or that ‘Human Ken Doll’ guy and you feel pity for how much they felt to erase and re-write what they looked like. That the body they were given was never good enough, worthy of rejection, in need of rebuilding.

        But transition requires the same mindset and is celebrated as ‘being authentic’ and ‘self acceptance’ and ‘expression of your true self’ how can this make sense? And parents of transkids, my God! The message of ‘do it early or you’ll be unattractive when you’re an adult’ (without even getting into the side effects of the drugs) is so counter intuitive to what we’re supposed to be saying. I love you just the way you are, so sure go get plastic surgery and change everything about yourself. Awful.

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    • “The whole ideology relies on a theoretical split between the mind/body/spirit that IMO does not, in actuality, exist.”

      As someone who recently has become aware of holistic healthcare and chinese medicine and how the earth really does provide all the answers, this is a notion that i see repeatedly, that a balanced body and mind is key. It is very obvious that such balance sadly does not exist in people who call themselves trans, but it isn’t because they are really the opposite sex, it’s because of the numerous internalized struggles they hold within themselves, unwilling of even facing, that then manifests in a way that makes them think there’s something wrong with them. It is very sad, and i have no seen a single trans critical person who is hateful of trans people, what i have seen are people who empathize and feel sorry for trans people and wish they would get the proper, considerate healthcare they need. It makes me sad to see these people get procedures done on them that only brings them harm. It is medically unethical.

      The neo vagina created in mtt is literally a hole created by inverting the penis, a hole that is not self cleaning like the vagina, not self lubricating like the vagina, nothing like the vagina, and also unlike the vagina will close itself up because the body sees the hole as an open wound, so mtt need to often and forever dilate the hole to keep it open. The procedure done on ftt of taking a piece of skin, often from their forearms, and creating it into a tube of skin that ‘doctors’ then attach in a position where a penis would be, is also not a penis. These women have to worry about their skin tubes dying, they offer no sensation, and it like the mtt neo vagina puts the patient at risk for several complications. All of this connects right back to holistic health care because in holistic principles, and really what should be basic common sense, these procedures are the opposite of healthy or sensible. So neither the physical or mental practices of treating people who call themselves transgender is rooted in balanced and thoughtful approaches.

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    • Thank you for your kind words! This may be cheesy of me, but I do believe that healing is always possible, that your mistakes make you clever, and what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger.

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      • It is not cheesy at all. It is true. But it takes clarity to understand where healing lies, and courage to change your life. I salute you and wish you the best.

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      • Potentilla, I so appreciate this. I love to garden too. In fact, I believe gardening is a way that God communicates with us – like children. For me, just the other day when I was very sad about my daughter who has moved out and decided to transition with a much older person (7 years), I pray a lot. I accidentally picked up a flower called an Archangel and also an Opal Innocent. Shortly there after when I was walking my dog (praying), I found a four leaf clover patch along with 5 leaf clovers. This made me think that my smart girl will get through this. Until then, I try not to take it too hard, although it’s like watching a new mercedes crash in slow motion. She was so beautiful not long ago, a beautiful creation, just like you! You are a hero. Thank you. Happy planting!

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  12. Dude. I want to hug you, or slap you on the back, or buy you a beer. Whatever expression of male cameraderie is good for where you’re at right now. 😉

    Like you, I spent my teens and twenties as a gender-nonconforming guy struggling with unresolved trauma and looking for a home in the counterculture. The modern social media trans phenomenon didn’t exist back then, and by the time it came around I had already matured into a psychologically stable adult male, but I see so much of myself in the young men who get caught up in it, and I could have written this paragraph word-for-word about some of them:

    I went from an authentic, studious, awkward, somewhat feminine man to performing full time as a trans woman… I would have never transitioned if I hadn’t been wounded by postmodernism and then given an escape hatch in trans. The narrative made me crazy just as much as my own predisposition made me vulnerable to it.

    In particular, I think you make a really insightful point here that resonates with my own observations of the youth trans subculture: for idealistic young people who’ve been influenced by a certain kind of postmodern identity politics, trans can be an “escape hatch” from the psychological double bind of being a “woke” member of the “oppressor” group.

    Thanks so much for sharing your story.

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  14. THANK YOU for sharing your experiences. I cannot begin to tell you how much I appreciate this. I cry tears of joy for you that you seem to have reached a place of peace in your life, where you can be whatever kind of man you want to be. I am trying to get my daughter to delay any medical transition as long as possible, with the hope that she’ll realize she doesn’t need it. She can be whatever kind of woman she wants to be.

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  15. Potentilla,

    Thank you so much for sharing your story.

    I am a parent of a young adult female transgender who shocked me with a trans announcement. I had always seen my extremely bright creative daughter as a “tomboy” like I had been.

    So when you say “my parents didn’t challenge me much when I transitioned, and were very supportive….they didn’t try very hard to dissuade me”, I readily admit that is not the path I have chosen. I have felt that if I went along, then everyone else would too, and there would be no one left to remind her how much we love and loved her as a young woman. Now she seems like such a different person, someone I am having such a hard time getting used to.

    So your parents went along fairly quickly with your woman name? Did you stay in close touch with them and your whole family over those years?

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    • Nervous Wreck, It is the same for me, except my daughter was always so feminine. She announced out of the blue that she was male and started doing the whole testosterone thing and now I barely recognize the person I was so close to for 25 years. It is so difficult to know what to do. I told her that I accepted that she had made this decision, but that I did not accept the whole narrative that she has now adopted. I must admit, I thought it would be like it had been in the past and that we could talk about things we disagreed about and discuss them and look at them from many angles. This has not been the case. She simply adheres to the talking points of the trans narrative as if they were self evident and straight from God.

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      • oh GILAW, I’m so sorry. How painful. There don’t seem to be any therapists who dare to really counsel these young people since the psychiatric model changed to affirm only. This is so hard to understand. How can a normal variant of life depend on medical procedures for happiness? I think a lot of youth are taking hormones as they might an antidepressant…misdiagnosis of depression as transgender. Reinvention of self creates happiness.

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      • GILAW, how traumatizing for you. It seems like the first rule of Trans Club is to only consider yourself. My 16 year old has recited the talking points and always reminds me it is HER body and HER life and has no ability to understand her behavior and demands for a special name and pronoun impacts us all. _I think the most difficult part of questioning the trans narrative is that it is an ideology with no rules and constantly shifting general guidelines. You can just “become” man or woman or any special flavor in between and it has to be accepted, no questions tolerated. Whatever the trans person wants whether it be simply name changes, or hormones and surgeries, it must be embraced.

        I wish you luck with your daughter and hope with your patience and love she can see her trans identity masks a lot of other feelings.

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      • Thats what I am hoping, but of course there are no guarantees. There are definitely other issues. She was seeing a very good psychologist who had helped a a lot with some of her other issues and then she got on the trans train. When he did not immediately agree with her self diagnosis, she found someone who would.

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      • “We just want to exist, like everyone else.” But this is a lie. They want to butt themselves into our spaces, police and dictate our language, call us bigoted and harrass us if we are not interested in them sexually and promote the idea that basic concepts of man and woman are just made up fiction. That isn’t just existing, it’s like an alien invasion.

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      • I have much the same experience with my 28 year old son. He has never been feminine. He is going down a road of futility and reason has no place in his path. I can truly empathize with all of you here.

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      • @JParle011317

        You’re quite right on that front! For a group so obsessed with people respecting their identities, they sure don’t respect anyone else’s. Heterosexual men obsessed with lesbian porn are allowed to pretend to be us, and when we point out that this is degrading and it’s appropriation, then we get called bigots.

        Like you said, we’re expected to pretend that basic biology doesn’t exist. The Church of Trans does not allow atheists and agnostics to exist.

        Misgendering is literal murder, but it’s okay if they do it to other people: https://purplesagefem.wordpress.com/2017/04/09/an-idiotic-non-binary-person-misgenders-their-coworker/#comment-9296

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    • My parents used my new name very quickly, and in fact it is the still the name they use for me! I was not in close touch whatsoever during that time because I choose to live instead with queer people and I carried a lot of anger towards my family.

      Again, I’m not a therapist, but this all is very similar to cult mind control. The personality change that is being discussed happens in other cults as well.

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    • Thank you bluebird of bitterness! Actually, I have a good deal of fear around too much notoriety since trans activists are a frightening bunch of folks. That being said the perspectives of detranstioners and desisters are very important and people ideally would deeply consider them before going down the dark road of trans

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  17. Potentilla,

    Is it a common explanation to hear that cis people are comfortable with their bodies and trans people aren’t? as simple as that? so maybe that is all my daughter might have heard to get her to be so sure she must be trans…simply because she has body dislike?

    If possible, if any readers could share specific links where they find TA use of this explanation, I would like to see them. Thank you.

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    • Hi Nervous Wreck,

      I second JBro’s comment saying that it is very common, at least as an underlying assumption, although it is rarely stated as baldly as I have.

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    • I want to join everyone in thanking Potentilla for sharing his experience.

      What a total disingenuous lie that “cis” people are automatically comfortable with their bodies. If that is the case, why are eating disorders and BDD rampant? Why are so many women deathly afraid to wear a swimsuit in public, or to shower and change in public locker rooms? Heck, I danced ballet until age 27 and was often told I had a model body. (At 5’9″, I am taller than most dancers.) People frequently asked how I kept in such top condition. They never asked *IF* I worked out, even if they didn’t know me. They asked what I did. Even so, I could see tiny flaws and did experience discomfort. Staring at yourself for several hours per day in a mirror will do that. I have since learned that this existential discomfort is “normal”, or at the very least, not unusual. MOST people feel insecure about physical flaws, even if no one else can see them. It would be the rare person indeed who is 100% comfortable with their body. Doesn’t make one trans, makes them human. We should be guiding out young to love themselves and feel comfortable in their own skin. The magic bullet of transition is just another “too good to be true” piece of fiction. The problem resides between the ears.

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      • What astute commentary! The part where you write: “We should be guiding our young to love themselves and feel comfortable in their own skin. The magic bullet of transition is just another “too good to be true” piece of fiction.” is so right on, I may quote you on that. Thank you!

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      • About 1-1/2 years ago I spoke with a lovely gay man who ran the gay straight alliance at the high school. I wanted his perspective on the trans issue as he worked with these young people every week. I told him that I thought it best to teach people to love and accept themselves exactly how they are, that I was confused and troubled by the way young people were using drugs and surgery to alter their bodies. He told me “your way is better, but it is too hard”. In the long run, I’m not sure this is true.

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      • YOUR way is too hard? Life-threatening surgeries and taking dangerous hormones and drugs is easier than self-acceptance?! WHY?! That really says something about our hyper-judgmental culture. Somewhere along the way, we take over the external negative messages we hear and kick our own butts relentlessly. It is no longer necessary for others to repeat negativity to us when we take over for them. THAT is screwed up! A movement to counteract this is more just than a movement to enable it.

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    • I am able bodied, but I know quite a few people with various disabilities, and have followed many of the arguments and shifting analyses of disability politics. Nowadays the idea that you have to change your body to fit society’s needs has been thrown out, now we say it is up to society to accommodate different bodies and abilities.

      I often note the similarities between the old treatment of people with disabilities – to somehow make them conform to able-bodied definitions, medically and socially, or else just stay home or be locked away – and trans ideology.

      In summary – body doesn’t fit society’s definitions – change society, not the body.

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    • There’s this article by MTF Youtuber/activist Zinnia Jones:

      Not all trans people have significant gender dysphoria or experience their dysphoria in the same way: different trans people may be uncomfortable with different aspects of their assigned sex, their body, their presentation, the gender role expected of them, and so on.

      […]

      [P]eople typically understand the experience of gender dysphoria as being very clearly and self-evidently centered on gender. The most widespread notion is that we become aware of our dysphoria in very direct, gender-related ways, such as knowing from a young age that we’re actually women or men despite the sex we were assigned, feeling “trapped” in our bodies due to their inappropriate sex characteristics, needing to make our “outside” match our “inside”, and strongly wishing to present and live as another gender… This understanding of gender dysphoria is an incomplete one.

      […]

      Trans and questioning people sometimes doubt that they’re trans simply because they don’t have distinct feelings of gender-related unease. They might otherwise face a great deal of confusion about what it is they’re feeling, but they can be aided in their self-understanding by the insight that gender dysphoria doesn’t always manifest as a neon sign flashing “FIX YOUR GENDER”. For them, it can help to realize that their less specific feelings of discomfort might also be due to gender dysphoria.

      The article then gives an eight-point list of symptoms of “indirect gender dysphoria” which are vague enough to apply to just about everyone, especially someone suffering from depression, from an autism-spectrum disorder, or from ordinary teenage angst:

      1. Continual difficulty with simply getting through the day… 4. A seeming pointlessness to your life, and no sense of any real meaning or ultimate purpose… 5. Knowing you’re somehow different from everyone else, and wishing you could be normal like them…

      Point 8 concludes that if you transition and it cures these symptoms, then surprise, you must have been trans all along! The only way to know is to try it out!

      The kicker is in the update at the bottom of the post, where the author admits that their symptoms returned a few months after their transition and that they were eventually diagnosed with clinical depression — but that of course this doesn’t invalidate their trans identity…

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      • I love the quotes you posted from the “You might be trans if…” article.

        I am LMAO because I just read the same ‘symptoms’ listed elsewhere as precursors of leaving the 3-d body and ascending into 5-d space (or something similar). Are you tired? Unsatisfied? Depressed? Having a hard time getting through the day? Check out our claptrap cult!!

        I bet old time snake oil salesmen used pretty much the same technique.

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      • Wow. Back in the eighties the popular diagnosis was Multiple Personality Disorder. And sexual abuse you don’t remember. The checklist went: 1. Do you have headaches? Fatigue? Difficulty getting along with people? Do you suddenly realize that time is passing more quickly than you expected? Everyone could fit the diagnosis! Who doesn’t suddenly realize an hour has passed quickly when they are doing something engrossing? When I was in graduate school to be a psychotherapist, they said that statistically, the average therapist saw one half of a multiple personality disorder in a life time of practice. In other words, half of all therapists never saw anyone with that diagnosis. When I had finished graduate school, there were clinics around that SPECIALIZED in Multiple Personality Disorder! It had become a favorite diagnosis that therapists labeled many people with and even talked people into believing they had! If you had headaches… you were probably suppressing sexual abuse and only your body had the memory of the abuse, not your mind! And you were Multiple! People accused their parents of abusing them when they had no memory of the abuse! This shows how a diagnosis can be iatrogenic (caused by the doctor or therapist) and how people could be convinced they had a disorder. I think this occurs now with Transgender Disorder! However, people who think they have the wrong body can go get irreversible surgery and hormone treatments and forever change their lives, health, future, familes, etc. It is certainly a very serious situation— especially when parents are putting kids on hormones to block puberty and cause sterility! Where are the people saying “The Emperor Has NO Clothes?” There are a few out there— but of course they risk ostracism for speaking up and perhaps professional ruin.

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  18. I think it is very common. These kids are led to believe not only does cis (which I considered made up and offensive) mean a person aligns with their biology, any person who feels any discomfort whatsoever is trans and it is the body that needs modification, and all negative self image and dysphoria is proof positive that the person is in the wrong body and their feelings will never change. I have no idea how medical professionals can justify affirming these feelings as evidence, knowing damn well a vast majority of us went through self-loathing and confusion during adolescent years. It may have taken a different shape or form but no one goes through the teen years unscathed.

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  19. The cult link goes deep – it’s worse than I thought. What is postmodern Marxism? It must be an American thing because British Marxists hate postmodernists.

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    • My second hand understanding of postmodern Marxism is that it arose in France post WWII from a group of Marxist intellectuals namely Jacques Derrida, Jean Baudrillard and even Foucault. These thinkers had come to see that Marxism wasn’t catching on in Western Europe and so they decided to create a philosophy to undermine the “phallologic” western civilization.

      The way they aimed to do this is by the disintegration of categories and by claiming all narratives are arbitrary and by extension equally meaningless. Without categories or narratives humans can’t think. This is where Marxist thinking asserts itself; everything is analyzed in terms of power relationships, with the binary of “oppressor” or “victim”. The “oppressor” class has ineradicable class guilt ascribed to it. This class analysis allows for concrete anti-western actions to take place even while categories and narratives are being actively deconstructed. If there wasn’t for the Marxist component there would only be nihilism.

      Of course this line of thinking is very common today, especially on the more authoritarian political left in the United States. My very limited understanding of European politics leads me to believe that these ideas also underpin much of the political left on the other side of the pond. From my American perspective there are similar identity politic. Although it appears quite a bit worse frankly in Europe, with it being considered hate speech to speak of Muslim migrant’s criminal activities in some jurisdictions (I’m thinking specifically here of Sweden, but the Rotherham scandal as well).

      Again, I’m speaking from an American perspective and on this side of the pond the left has gone whole hog into postmodern identity politics.

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      • When you realise Baudrillard claimed the Gulf War never happened it gives you a good sense of the kind of minds behind postmodernism. These are the same people who claimed to disdain grand narratives, then drew a straight line between the Enlightenment and the Holocaust, creating perhaps the grandest narrative of all. While Marxism takes oppression very seriously, it is primarily the theory of exploitation based on the relations of production, so it requires that social structures do in fact exist. Just as ‘post-feminism’ actually means ‘not feminism’, ‘post-Marxism’ apparently means ‘not Marxism’ (as far as I can tell post-Marxism is the same as postmodern Marxism). It’s no wonder it’s screwing people up.

        The form of guilt you describe is new to me. When I joined the left I felt guilt, but it was for being too young to have fought in the Miners’ Strike. It was our big showdown and I never really forgave myself for missing Orgreave. Although I suppose that makes no more sense than feeling guilty for any other things you have no control over. On the subject of things you should feel guilty about – Burkean conservatism – you mean Edmund Burke, author of ‘Reflections on the Revolution in France’, the bible of counterrevolutionary ideology? How did you end up there? 🙂

        I’m surprised you know about Rotherham. Is that common knowledge for Americans, or did you go looking for it or find it by chance?

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      • Jordan Peterson is so smug and arrogant he actually made me feel sorry for postmodernists. Now I feel dirty.

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      • It’s nearly impossible to speak critically about tran ideology now. What happens when Dr. Peterson loses his battle with the Canadian ultra left and people start being fined and jailed for their descent? As far as I can tell, he’s the only one fighting that fight. Perhaps you might look past the perceived smug arrogance and hear what he says. It really is worth a listen. Was there something besides his demeanor that bothered you?

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      • I looked at his website and only watched one of his videos, so there may be more to him, but I am on the ultra-left – it’s only identity politics and trans ideology I disagree with. To me he’s just spouting re-warmed Thatcherite pro-market drivel complete with contempt for the oppressed and any who would question the established order. Maybe he will lead to something positve but, while these are desperate times, hoping for salvation from the right has always been an extremely risky strategy under any circumstances.

        I don’t know about the situation in Canada specifically, but radical feminists are still putting up a fight. Gail Dines’ video ‘Neoliberalism and the Defanging of Feminism’ also criticises postmodernism but blames it on the victory of neoliberal ideology and the defeat of the left, essentially the opposite position to Peterson. (She focuses on the feminist response to the sex industry but the theory helps explain all identity politics.)

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      • This probably isn’t the best place to discuss political ideology (trans excluded of course). Dr. Peterson’s primary concern is with free speech without which everyone becomes either the oppressed or the oppressor. Does anyone here on 4thWaveNow feel oppressed by our inability to freely speak on the topic of trans? Are our kids being oppressed by the affirmative treatment they are receiving? I know I’ve never felt so oppressed in all my life.
        He’s also one of the few practicing psychologists that publicly recognized that Dr. Ken Zucker was unlawfully run out of the practice he founded for too much gatekeeping.

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      • Jordan Peterson is absolutely right to be predicting the imminent demise of free speech, including that which critiques transgender ideology; unfortunately, as the other poster notes, Mr. Peterson is also a self-righteous, arrogant demagogue himself who appeals to feelings of hysterical outrage, presented in soundbite format for those who don’t want to think very much. There are far saner and more thoughtful voices out there doing the hard work of building coherent critiques of SJW thought and language policing, the philosophical inconsistencies and absurdities of transgender ideology, and the dangers of postmodernism run amok.

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  20. Pontilla, thank you so much for your piece. I can tell that it really came from the heart and I truly appreciate that you took the time to write it all out in such a beautiful way. So much of the time, I would bet that people who have walked away from this cult, just want done with it forever, and don’t want to come back to share their lessons learned. So I very much appreciate that you did that for us. Best of luck with everything, it seems like you are on much more fulfilling and meaningful path now.

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  21. A very moving column – and I’m so glad you have rediscovered your true self, the original “authentic, studious, awkward, somewhat feminine man”… sounds like quite an attractive human being to me.

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  22. Potentilla- I just want to thank you for this post. It seems lately that my life is a rollercoaster of hopelessness and my natural tendency to be hopeful. My daughter is 19 and is suffering from anxiety. She is so frightened to just try … anything! And so she clings to the trans ideology because I think it makes her feel safe. I’m trying to find a therapist that will just deal with her anxiety but I have to say… I’m extremely distrustful of anyone in the mental health field and even the medical field. She has been affirmed by her first therapist and then by a gender therapist so I really feel kind of helpless! It makes me so angry that people who are highly educated professionals are so blind to this and I feel helpless to help my child . So I just want to say Potentilla that today you have given me hope and I guess that has to be enough for today. I really believe that wider Progressive society has so unquestioningly swallowed this whole narrative because if it isn’t happening to someone you love or yourself than they don’t really care so much. Live and let live! as far as the suicide scare tactics of trans activists and the media it makes me sick to my stomach. My daughters best friend got her mom to go along with alll her demands by threatening suicide. Her mom lost two brothers to suicide so you can imagine the terror she must feel and is suffering from alcoholism herself. This movement is narcissism at its worst!! Thank you once again and I am happy you have found peace in your life

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    • Awakened, you are so right – this movement is narcissism. Your daughter sounds like my 19 year old daughter, except mine is already on hormones via an informed consent clinic. S/he totally sidestepped the whole diagnostic process and ran with her rapid onset idea. Thankfully s/he agreed to be evaluated for Aspergers….she has always been a very anxious child….which I think will be the case. Females can be missed for many years and are often diagnosed late. If she is ASD, then I hope s/he will agree to learn all s/he can about it, the explanations are all there.

      Look up Tania Marshall and Tony Atwood.

      Best wishes to you.

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      • Awakened and Nervous Wreck, I agree that it is narcissism. My 19 year old daughter has always been very anxious, prone to depression. She announced she was male a year and a half ago and has been on hormones now for almost a year, likewise doing the fast track of informed consent. No resemblance of the beautiful, talented, funny daughter she once was. She is/was in college when this all started (first semester) but it has been a disaster and she is failing out this spring and dropping out. She says she is too anxious and worried to attend class or do the work, even when doing all of this to appear male and she is “passing”. This has worsened her anxiety and my question is if this is something she is doing to be her true self, why is she so miserable and failing at everything? She has essentially cut off all communication with me, her dad and her siblings, except when she needs food money, etc. and is determined to raise money for her. Her therapist is a transgender male, as are her roommates and the few friends she has (i.e., all members of the “cult”). Any attempt to discuss this with her results in her being angry, dismissive and throwing out the trans lingo and telling me I’m trans phobe. She has no care for anyone else in her once very close extended family and even when told her dad had learned of a heart problem and possible surgery that would be needed, only commented that like her dad, the surgeries she wanted – double mastectomy – were medically necessary to save her life since at some point, if she didn’t get the surgeries, she will kill herself. I have tried to intervene, talk to her therapists, but they have all shut me out. My therapist and priest have told me there is nothing more to do, having said my piece, other than wait for it to fall apart and to be there still for her when/if it does. It has been heartbreaking and devastating to me and our entire family. The last time we spoke, right before Easter, she only called to tell me that she had just competed her legal name change and how happy she was about it. No empathy or sense as to how this might effect me or her father. I feel that she is lost to us, at least for now.

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      • Hoping for a Miracle, I’m sorry for what you’re going thru. Is there any chance your daughter might be on the autism spectrum? that seems to lead some females to feel out of place with other women, and then think they are men. My daughter has agreed to be evaluated, but is now happy living as a man, it will take a miracle for her to rethink everything based on an ASD diagnosis.

        Like

    • My kid has anxiety as well, some normal social interactions terrify her. And I am so frustrated with trying to find her some help that will not just consist of “hey, you dress like a boy, what’s up with that?” And then the whole convo/process will head off into genderland, likely with the assumption/affirmation that transition will fix the social anxiety. (Which way predates any possible whiff of gender-role nonconformity for this kid.)

      It is incredibly, incredibly frustrating as a parent to be in this situation, knowing your kid has a mental health issue that actually could use some professional help, and feeling like all we’re going to find is a testosterone booster. After what I have seen out there regarding the climate around this issue, not to mention less-than-stellar prior experiences with the psychs we have seen over the years for the kid, It’s maddening to be put in a position of facilitating a process that you think is WRONG for your kid in order to address this other pre-existing condition.

      I have screwed up my own body worrying about this over a long period — not just worrying about my kid but also knowing that all my progressive friends/church will expect me to cheer and celebrate when/if kid finally takes the hormonal plunge. (To me this is like having your cohorts expect you to celebrate when your kid has joined the Moonies. What a world, what a world.)

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      • Most therapists believe the transgender illogic that someone can be born in the wrong body. It is becoming more obvious that surgery and hormones are not a great idea for some. So many are deciding to de-transition. How can people believe the superficial hype that people are born in the wrong bodies of they decide they are miserable and try to go back to their original, physical selves eventually?
        Some make the transition successfully and live out their transgender existence apparently happily. I think this is fine, but the problem is: We don’t know how to predict who will be satisfied with the transition and who won’t. I read that the rate of suicide stays the same regardless of whether the person transitions or not. The rate is 40% I believe. That is a high suicide rate!
        If I had a child in those shoes I would encourage the self expression of the chosen gender…I would be supportive. However. I would try to help the child put off hormones and surgery as long as possible— forever if possible. A young man can wear dresses and make-up, a young girl can wear muscle shirt and work out– and express their sense of gender as much as they want. Perhaps doing so will help them avoid medical solutions that usually are not solutions at all.
        BTW, did you know that therapists are not allowed to work with people to change their sexual orientation? This is because it is believed that therapy cannot change sexual orientation and will only cause more depression and even suicide. Providing therapy to change sexual orientation is considered unethical. This could eventually be applied to trying to help people accept their gender identity that they are born with… in other words, it could be considered unethical to help people accept the identity that fits with their genitalia at birth.

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      • The suicide rate is nowhere near 40%. There are some surveys that give a number like this for suicidal ideation and it is an important part of the trans narrative used to bully parents and justify medical transition, but please do not repeat this number. I have seen surveys claiming that suicidality goes from 40% down to 1.5% if parents support the transition and these numbers are repeated everywhere, but that was an online survey that anyone could take as many times as they wanted and which had no meaningful controls. I am a scientist and can assure you that data from scientific studies NEVER looks like that.

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      • Camille, you say: “it could be considered unethical to help people accept the identity that fits with their genitalia at birth”.

        we are already there in some USA states with legislation regarding conversion therapy in minors for BOTH sex and gender identity. And what constitutes “conversion” or “reparation” therapy is not legally defined. You cannot find a therapist in the State of California to help a child who claims to be transgender work thru their feelings and try to live comfortably as their birth sex. Their fear the loss of their license.

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    • I’m the only person in my sons life that didn’t just accept that he was suddenly trans. Everyone else is too concerned with the suicide aspect. In fact he told me that if he did ever kill him self it would be because of me.

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      • FWIW – A friend of mine whose son is also “girlish” identified mentioned something about hurting self in front of therapist. Well, the therapist by law had to call the ER or police. The mom and son spent the next 4 days in the ER till a bed could be found in an inpatient place, and another 5 days in that psych ward. That kid never ever mentioned self harm again or wanted to go back to the therapist. The mom commented to me that it was the best thing that happened – it taught him you don’t mess around with saying you will hurt yourself or off you go to the psych hosp which is not a fun place to be. I believe other parents have had similar experiences.

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      • I just had a big blowout with my child after she referred to herself a man,citing Bill Nye’s recent show was proof she is transgender I cried, screamed and did everything wrong. I am so, so tired of this a wish someone would hand me a manual on this.

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      • Bill Nye the sycophant guy, mission: to be loved by the left at any cost. I wish I could tell you I’ve found a way to fix this. You’re in the closest thing to a manual I’ve encountered so far at 4thwavenow.

        Like

      • I am indeed grateful for the support. I hope one day she passes through this and is comfortable in her own skin.

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      • Yep, we the parents have refused to change our daughter’s pronouns to he. It is hurtful her, but praying she will our pushback. She plenty support at school, not come to the family

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      • JBro & absurdsyphoria is the manual is called Love & Respect. We are walking a fine line between acknowledging/affirming what our kids’ are feeling (i.e., brain doesn’t match biological sex) without confirming that their conclusions are necessarily accurate/true.

        I’m approaching the 12-month mark with my 16YO daughter’s instance that she’s a boy, albeit a “feminine boy” (I still have NO idea what that means). In that time she’s had 2 hospitalizations for suicidal intent and continues her battle with anxiety and depression. Despite her constant requests, her father and I have not changed pronouns. We have agreed to use her chosen name (“a rose by any other name …”) and don’t fuss over her clothing choices.

        We have often had to explain that her safety is our most important concern. I have acknowledged that I understand her feelings and conclusions; however I don’t believe she has given herself enough time to accept the beautiful, healthy, strong body she has and that I don’t know anyone that is completely comfortable with how they feel in their body but with time we have all learned to accept it.

        She is very frustrated that I won’t allow her to start testosterone “You have the tools to make me feel better and you won’t use them.” I have calmly explained that I’m not convinced that “T” will actually help her; and, therefore, I’m not willing to subject her body to the permanent changes and associated health risks.

        I can say that our relationship has actually improved because we’ve spent a great deal of effort listening and respecting each other’s thoughts and feelings. However, it took me, the adult, to take the first steps and let her know that I can believe and respect her opinions without always agreeing with them. So despite my resistance to her insistence that she is not female, I know that should she ever actually die by suicide, it won’t be because she feels her mother doesn’t love & respect her. Just last week, I had the tiniest glimmers of hope when she admitted that she has no clue who she is … fingers crossed that when she figures it out, she’ll realize that her biological sex is her truth.

        It’s important to understand that a teen is often overwhelmed with the feeling of not being a child and not having the skills/brain of an adult. As parents, we have to transition from making decisions for kids to guiding them as they learn their own decision-making skills. And that will mean many conversations where we bite our tongues and say “hmmm … that’s interesting, tell me how you think that will play out” instead of “Are you nuts?! That will never work!”

        Love AND respect … our kids are where they are emotionally and developmentally; and, despite our discomfort, we must hang in there, be their rock and provide gentle but firm guidance.

        Liked by 2 people

      • I really needed to hear that today! I have been making a concerted effort to not get angry and add to the chaos. Our arguments are much less frequent but I did need that gentle reminder that as the adult and parent, I still have a job and it is not to fox her, but give her a secure place to ride this rocky roller coaster. Thank you!

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    • Thank you! Honestly, I simply want to heal and move on with my life. Writing about my experience and sharing it is a part of that process. As I’ve mentioned elsewhere here, I currently feel that this experience defines me much more than I’d like, and wish to move towards a more realized sense of self.

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  24. I just wanted to add something a bit off-topic. The NPR show Here & Now is featuring Caitlin/Bruce Jenner on the show today. There was also a recent show called the Transgender Traveler.
    I have been in the habit for years for listening to NPR. Naturally, they are not alone, as all mainstream media seems to promote and celebrate transgenderism.
    Let’s not be shy in speaking up and letting people and the powerful press know that there is a different side of the story. We are losing our children. For many of our teen and young adult children, this movement has captured them in a cult-like way.

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    • I’ve spoken to many people about this. What if your kid decided they were trans. Everyone says they would support them with whatever they decided. Of course they’re all running off the mainstream media trans narrative. They haven’t bothered to read or research anything. Because of course they really don’t care enough because it’s just a hypothetical for them that can’t “actually happen”. Hell, I can even remember the bliss of ignorance.

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    • Hi greatergoodtruth,

      I agree. I regret that I fell for the trans cult, and am greatly saddened by its growing popularity. Many trans people I know are secretly torn, ambivalent, and conflicted about their trans identity and decision to transition. This reality doesn’t get discussed nearly enough.

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  25. “In turn, I saw people valuing me for something deeper than my identity.”

    I think this is a crucial sentence. I believe that once upon a time, society judged your value according to what you did and the actions you took. With identity politics, we started judging people’s value according to identity, regardless of their actions. Hence, white males must be guilted, while all trans people must be celebrated, regardless of whether they spend their spare time drowning puppies.

    A lot of people, especially young people, find themselves adrift without a passion to pursue or a cause to connect with. They are overeducated and yet underemployed. What is their value, they ask? Coming out as trans is a window towards instant value based only on identity, rather than actions.

    This is similar to the immortal MLK quotation, which I still think has huge relevance: he wanted his children judged “not by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.” We should judge people not by whether they identify as “trans” but by the content of their character. Instead of celebrating identity, celebrate actions and talent and hard work and good deeds.

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    • Hi Kristina,

      This is such an important point. Transgenderism exists within a certain cultural context. That context is of the political and social left which has increasingly come to put identity politics front and center. Horrifically, the immortal words of MLK are now quite far to the political right of the leftist zeitgeist.

      People such as myself who are raised, educated, and indoctrinated in leftist enclaves are trained to see people not as individuals but as members of identity groups. Each identity group (race, gender, ability, economic class etc) comes to define each individual, who is merely the interesection of all of their identities.

      I would frame this as the transendant quality is not associated with the individual but instead the group.

      This is a dehumanizing way to understand oneself and others. I believe this is the cultural context from which trans grows.

      I’m a bit at a loss of where to go leaving this context. Basically I’m a classical liberal with Burkean and anti-authoritarian leanings. I believe that individuals have a transendant quality and that identity groups are ultimately only mental abstractions

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  26. Hoping for a Miracle, my heart is so heavy after reading your story. I know all of us parents here are traumatized by this Venus Fly Trap of a trend but I am especially sorry to learn how far gone your daughter is so far and how she has physically and emotionally distanced herself from your family, even minimizing your husband’s health concerns.

    I just got the book recommended by Potentilla: “Combating Cult Mind Control”by Steven Hassan. Ia
    Hoping to find some answers how to best respond to trans ideology without pushing my kid on deeper out of rebellion.

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    • Yes, that pushing deeper is something I’m sure I’ve done. It’s difficult beyond reason when someone you know better than anyone and love more than anything stands staring at the oncoming train and refuses to heed the warning bells.

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  27. So sorry Hoping For A Miracle, The same thing happened to our family. I wish I could tell you it gets better or that she will come around. That has not happened for us. We have not have contact in over a year now. She is gone. I wish you all much better.

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  28. Potentilla, would you consider writing another post that is more specific about certain things from within the trans community? Like narcissism, how queer and trans is more respected and favored than homosexuality, and very importantly what the mtt half of the trans community truly thinks about women and sexism. Like you said, sexism is a big problem with the community and I’d be very interested in hearing about some of the attitudes of mtt from within the community. I’ve read lots of troubling and disturbing comments from mtt discussion forums and on tumblr, but it’s always interesting to hear it from the perspective of someone who was in the middle of it all. Is it as narcissistic and woman hating as it often seems?

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    • Hi Rafa,

      Thank you for your interest! I’m not quite sure what the direction my writing is going to take on trans issues. Most of me wants to process my experiences and move on so that they don’t define me for the rest of my life. That is I hope to develop myself so I can regard myself as much more than as a detransitioner, which is a devastating identity to hold and currently takes up most of my sense of self.

      My trans community was very social justice orientated and I didn’t see much that was openly woman hating to be fair. The sexism I refer to is more the compression of stereotypes into full on identities that are regarded more highly than biology. I’m sure other trans communities are different.

      Sexual fetishism is certainly a real part of the trans community, especially among transwoman, and I’ve read credible accounts of this being expressed with considerable misogyny and sexual violence. That being said, this isn’t something I was aware of in my own communities and experience and as such am not interested in commenting further on it.

      Other points you bring up I may explore in due time in which case I’ll most likely make them public.

      Again thank you for your interest!

      Liked by 3 people

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      • The media hype about the bravery of trans coming out is outrageous. True bravery is understanding the consequences and doing what is right anyway. Just by posting your article you have exhibited bravery far beyond that of the celebrated Jenner.

        Liked by 3 people

  29. Thanks you so much Potentilla for your courage in writing this. There are far too few accounts of detransitioned people’s experiences which no surprise to me as I cannot begin to imagine what they (including you) go through on this journey. I sincerely wish all young people caught up in this trans phenomenon could get to read this account. It makes so much sense to me, particularly about all young people feeling dissatisified with their bodies and thinking this therefore means they are trans. Hopefully it will resonate with some of these young people. Most of them, if not actually autistic, seem to have some of the traits including obsessionality and problems with uncertainty which makes them more likely to leap to this conclusion when they do not feel they fit in – as most teenagers feel at some time

    My 14 year old daughter stated she was trans a year ago now, having been bullied and not fitted in well with girls – she is rather obsessional and very bright so comes across as a bit odd. She was however never boyish before puberty. Her behaviour now in fact is still , in my view, feminine despite how she chooses to dress and wear her hair. I have been trying to discuss with her some of the views on this and other trans sceptical sites and have given her a copy of your article and asked her to read it. I don’t know if she has read it or not but she has now started to say she is uncertain about her gender. Although she says she does not feel female she does not feel male either and may be non binary gender. This feels like possible progress to me but I am afraid to make too much of it. She is under the children’s GIDSs service at the present time.

    I wonder if you would kindly comment on what approach you would have found helpful (or unhelpful) back when you were feeling trans. I am trying to slip in short discussions and give her articles just now and then to drip feed her with this “other view”. I have made it clear to her that I do not believe she is trans but that I accept that she does believe it at present. We have accepted her using a gender neutral name but not pronouns. It is hard however to know if you are doing harm or good at times. Any advice you can give is most greatly appreciated

    I do wish you all the best on your journey of recovery

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    • Hi Jessie,

      I think if I had talked with a detransitioned person who could see through me and accept me as I am, even with my struggles with mental illness, I would not have transitioned. I’m not a therapist, but as a concerned layman I’d be happy to skype with your daughter if she were open to it.

      As for other details; I don’t know. It was a long time ago and I was heavily influenced by my social milieu. I was not living with my parents at the time; I was living in what was a for all intents and purposes a queer cult. For whatever it’s worth, it sounds to me like you are doing a good job navigating this.

      I wish you and your daughter the best,
      potentilla

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      • Thanks so much for that I really appreciate it. I will broach the subject of her skyping with you when I feel she is open to talking. I have to choose the times carefully. I doubt she will be up for it but it can’t hurt to suggest it.

        You are providing invaluable help and support here. I hope you are being supported too

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    • Yes, thank you so much Potentilla for sharing your story which is of such value and reassurance to me. Like Jessie, my 13 year daughter announced she was transgender last July, completely out of the blue. I’m 200% convinced that social media has influenced her. Her appearance and personality has changed completely and it’s now starting to destroy her relationship with grandparents/aunties/uncles/friends etc due to not calling her by ‘her correct pronoun’ and yet she has never been so unhappy as she is now. She knows that we love her dearly but that we don’t agree with her and she is holding this against us. She has said that she will wait until she has finished school before she takes Testosterone but I know that’s all she thinks about. The crazy thing is that she can’t say how she thinks her life will be better by transitioning, just that she is a boy in a girls body. She is not prepared to listen to the other side of the story. I’ve spent the last two months trying to find a critical therapist in the West London area but with no luck. I was literally at rock bottom before I found this website and Transgender Trend, which is why I am so grateful as I know I not alone. I just hope that the next two years will give her some time to really think about what she is doing. If there are any other parents in the West London area going through this and would like to talk, I would be more than willing. Once again thank you Potentilla and 4th wave now, I am truly grateful.

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      • Thank you ver much. I hope that one day soon you can help. At the moment my daughter will not listen to anything we have to say. It’s almost as though this whole issue is consuming her and she can’t think of anything else but this. She is so down and now tonight she says she is suicidal and totally blames me for not giving in to her. This really s so heart breaking. Anyway tomorrow is another day
        Thanks all

        Liked by 1 person

      • Suicidal depression is treated with a visit to the emergency room, then follow-up with psychotherapy for depression and maybe some meds, at least for awhile. Suicidal depression is not treated by sterilization, steroid hormones, and amputation of healthy body parts. Depression is also not treated by a psychologist telling everyone to act like the depressed person want you to. For instance, If my boyfriend breaks up with me and I feel suicidally depressed, my depression is not treated by demanding that my ex-boyfriend start seeing me again and telling me that he really loves me forever. Rather, I am given strategies and support to get over my disappointment and move on.

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      • @end of my tether mom: I am also terribly sorry you are going through all of this. It sounds incredibly miserable for everybody involved.

        There are several of us here on this board who are, unfortunately, experienced with suicidal threats/ideation/attempts. If your daughter threatens or discusses suicide, I know it’s natural to react as if it’s “the atom bomb.” Nobody, maybe not even your daughter, can know how serious her statements really are. It is not unheard of for a teen to threaten something atrocious, if she feels desperate enough or thwarted enough (and, sadly, some young people are actually “coached” to make these threats by others in their online community). Again, though, from your perspective you can’t know for sure.

        This is why the best advice I know of for dealing with suicidal statements or threats is to call the emergency services and have your daughter taken in for observation and evaluation. Do not hesitate, bargain, discuss, debate or inquire. Just do it. If your daughter is sincere, she needs to be in a place where she cannot hurt herself. If your daughter is not sincere, perhaps the next time she thinks about vocalizing suicide, she will think again. It is extraordinarily cruel to the people around you to bring suicide into the discussion, when it does not belong there.

        One of the things I find most despicable about the transgender lobby is their facile and constant invocation of suicide as the “only alternative” to transition. It’s basically a meme in that community.

        Liked by 5 people

      • Thank you worried mom, I hadn’t thought of doing that. It’s crazy that a child can say such threatening things and the next minute singing to their music or playing the piano like nothing’s happened and the rest of the family are left exhausted and reeling. GILAW you are so right, I need her to understand there are other ways to cope with her problems, but at the moment according to her there is only one way that way will make her so happy and change her life for the better. She is still so young and immature in many ways. I feel like I don’t even know her anymore. I don’t care that she wants to look and dress as a boy, I wouldn’t even care if she pierced or tattooed every inch of her body but I do care that she wants to harm her beautiful healthy body because she thinks it’s a solution and the future frightens me.

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      • Bless you that’s very kind thank you. Things were just awful yesterday evening. She was screaming and crying, saying she is so unhappy living in her body and as soon as she is 16 she wants to take testosterone. It doesn’t help that she too has been suffering from anxiety for a number of years, which seems to be worse recently. I asked her if she would be willing to discuss alternative ways to cope with her dysphoria. But when she asked – ‘what ways?’ I didn’t know what to say. She threatened to cut herself with a knife and when I said I will call 999 she put it down. The worse thing is that my poor 11 year old son is taking all this in. He’s a totally different personality, but I feel sorry for him. In a way last night was good because normally says she won’t talk to me about it. Although she is with CAMHS (she’s only had about 4 appointments) I feel we are not getting anywhere. I def need to find a critical therapist. Last July she asked me what transgender meant and now look at the state we are in! I am so pleased to have found this site and sorry for moaning.

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      • Regarding your son, I’m sorry he has to witness this. My daughters are devastated seeing their big brother “transition” into a “sister”. Grown daughter doesn’t humor him, but my teen, still at home, goes along to keep peace. She’s really heartbroken though.

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  30. FYI Re: Rates of detransition in UK from FOI request. This is back in 2010 but it seems less than honest about the rates of detransition. This exchange telling “this exchange regarding a Freedom of Information Request made to West London Mental Health Trust
    back in 2009/2010.

    West London Mental Health Trust, having consulted its Lead Clinician, admitted that
    1) a fair number of people (around twenty) undergoing the transgender “real life test” reverted to original gender role within 18 months. This was said to be true also of Nottingham Gender Identity Clinic.

    2) WLMH also admitted that they were dealing with a LARGE number of people who regretted their sex change operations,
    who had undergone one-year real life tests in the private sector, and who were detransitioning.

    Importantly WLMHT said they were considering studying the trend of detransition as the numbers were now so large.
    However, the Equality Act was then passed no doubt strengthening the hand of the trans lobby and stigmatising all
    talk of detransitioners.
    All this makes me wonder is this why Charing Cross Gender Clinic was closed last year and merged into the Tavistock?
    Clear reasons were not given in the press.

    3) The result of (2) was that waiting times for other patients at the Gender Clinic had gone up.

    see link here: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/a_dishonest_foi_response_from_th

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    • I agree! Thank, Olive. I really hope some legitimately curious reporters start to put this all together so the information goes mainstream. I feel like the whole gender affirmative treatment model is designed to make sure no one who could possibly benefit, no matter how infantesimallly small that number may be, gets immediate treatment despite the fact this is a terrible mistake for the great majority. They need to hide the numbers in order to compartmentalize the guilt and perpetuate the illusion they are helping more than harming.

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    • Hello Olive. This is very interesting. Thank you for posting this. I really want to understanding the big picture of this whole topic. My main interests are actual detransition/regret rates and rates of persistence/desistance of youth treated in gender clinics (my main concern). I read about what is going in Britain and other countries with public health because I can’t even begin to get a picture of what is going on in the US where we have private health care. But the trends seem the same from anecdotal stories. Do you mind me asking why you are seeking this information?

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    • I had children fairly early and returned to college to complete my 4yr degree when they were older. My son expressed his desire to transition around age 20, as I was attending school. My lifespan dev (psych) course was heavily focused on transgender normalization, and it was integrated into other courses as well. In fact, in our all women cohort, we introduced ourselves at the first class with the distinction of preferred pronouns. I sincerely wish you the best. ❤

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  32. Thank you Potentilla ❤ I haven't been here in a few days, but am feeling especially sad today. I'll save your story for when my son is ready. At this point he says I'm cruel.
    Something I re-shared on fb in honor of my firstborn's 25th birthday today. Feeling angry at the "professionals" in Portland.

    I really dislike the memes that mock gender dysphoric/variant people. I don't think mocking trans people is funny. I don't think it's funny because I know how Hollywood works. Mind control is not funny. Endocrine disruption is not funny. Shaming parents into supporting the violation of their children is not funny. Teaching young children that they can choose their sex is not funny; and putting them on puberty blockers is not funny. Amputating/mutilating life creating/ sustaining organs is not funny. The amount of gender dysphoric people who remain depressed after "treatment" is not funny. The number of young people "de-transitioning" is not funny. The reality of bullying by those within the trans "community" toward those who consider de-transitioning is not funny. The inevitable exponential increase in people who will live to regret this diabolical social engineering experiment is not funny. The lack of ethics within the "health care" profession is not funny. Caring people who simply ask questions or disagree are not hateful, bigoted, or transphobic. And people who blindly "accept" are not unconditionally compassionate and loving- you are complicit. Please wake up!

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    • Hopefully these unethical psychological and health care professionals will start spending all their time in court sooner than later. All of this trans mythology is so damaging to their cause. Honest conversation must happen. By definition male is male and female is female. If you are an adult and want to pretend, fine have at it. But you must know that you are in fact pretending and understand the consequences of your choices. Hold on tight islamaeocean, I think we’re fighting the same fight.

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      • Thank you for writing this,

        I had a lot of magical thinking going into transitioning which was reinforced by mental health care professionals. This is of course unethical; my delusions would have best examined rather than being affirmed. That being said, I went out looking for rubber stamping informed consent model and to my great regret that is what I found.

        I wish there had been a counter narrative to trans doctrine I could have actually considered before getting into this. I hope to aid the creation of this emerging counter narrative by sharing my own story.

        Liked by 3 people

  35. Has anyone ever suggested that there may be a connection between cross-sex delusional thinking and psychotropic drugs?

    A few weeks ago I drew attention to the earliest detailed case-history of someone who would now be labelled “transgender”, in Krafft-Ebing’s Psychopathia Sexualis, first published in 1886.

    The person in question developed a fetishistic attraction to women’s clothing at thirteen, and by the time he was an adult he was a classic autogynephile: “I doubt whether … I ever admired a woman without wishing I were she” and later: “even on my marriage night, I felt that I was only a woman in man’s form”.

    But he was precipitated into full-blown delusion after ingesting an enormous dose of cannabis resin (then used medicinally), which sent him into a hallucinatory state: “All at once I saw myself a woman from my toes to my breast”. After he came down from his trip, he was in a psychotic state in which he felt, and apparently believed, that his body had become female and his personality feminized. At the time he wrote his report this had already lasted three years; Krafft-Ebing mentions a later communication from him, three years later, in which he describes his condition as unchanged.

    I was reminded of this case recently when reading accounts of lycanthropy, a mental disease in which the patient believes that they have become an animal. This disease was first described by physicians in ancient Greece. These days it is fairly rare but there are still occasional reports of cases. Several such accounts are collected in Vampires, Werewolves and Demons: Twentieth Century Reports in the Psychiatric Literature, ed Richard Noll (1992). In one case a man who took LSD “felt himself slowly turn into a werewolf”. Another man developed a similar delusion after smoking hash.

    I note that Potentilla states above that he “did too many drugs” when he was around twenty, at the time when he was gradually coming to believe he was a woman.

    I find myself wondering how much of a part psychotropic drugs play in the aetiology of cross-sex delusions. Unlikely to be a factor in every case, but the case reported by Krafft-Ebing is suggestive. (And unlike most modern self-reports it is not contaminated by any kind of ‘trans narrative’, because nothing like that existed.)

    I note that not all psychotropic drugs are illegal; that SSRIs prescribed as antidepressants have been known to precipitate psychosis; that SSRIs are widely prescribed to teenagers as well as adults.

    Does anyone know whether the possible effect of psychotropic drugs has ever been discussed in the medical literature on transsexualism/transgenderism? I don’t recall seeing anything along those lines, but there are many papers that I haven’t seen.

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    • I wonder if psychedelics have ever been used to treat dysphoria? When they were legal in the fifties and sixties psychiatrists tried them with many mental illnesses, apparently with good results. They are just coming back into use now with magic mushrooms for depression and ecstacy for PTSD. Since a lot of reports of good trips involve sloughing off false beliefs and accepting yourself as you are, there could be potential in psychedelics as well as risk.

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      • Sounds like a question for MAPS! (MAPS = Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies.)

        Like

      • Reading a couple of forums experiences seem about evenly balanced between dysphoria caused by drugs and dysphoria cured by drugs. In one case ayahuasca caused it, then cured it a year later (make up your minds, plant spirits!) My favourite quote was “gender is irrelevant when your mind is full of rainbow cats”. This is more rational commentary on gender than you usually get from the mainstream. It should also be our slogan from now on 😉

        There is an article in Psychedelic Times ‘3 Ways Psilocybin Therapy Could Lead to Healthier Transitions’ that describes how many post-op transsexuals still have dysphoria and how psilocybin could help them accept their new bodies. The author never even considered that psilocybin may have helped them accept their old bodies. It also includes a link to a BJPsych Advances article ‘Psychotherapy for Gender Identity Disorders’ which has interesting info on the rigid gender essentialism of trans people and the prevalence of post-op dysphoria, depression and regret (25%).

        Liked by 1 person

    • That is fascinating! the drug I did way too much of prior to transitioning was cannabis, massive amounts of it freely provided by a lonely gay man. I did develop what could have been defined as psychosis after this, and my entire transition could be said to have grown out of this drug-addled disordered mental state.

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    • If transgender feelings can be brought on by cannabis or other drugs, how do we explain the 99.99+% or people — literally numbering about a billions globally — who used a boatload of the stuff and never developed transgender feelings? I think it is a stretch, though there is some evidence that certain drugs can perhaps contribute to psychiatric problems in people already heavily predisposed to them. In other words, I don’t think we can blame drugs, but people predisposed should certainly avoid taking drugs that may only complicate things and add additional problems — for them. The vast majority of people seem to be able to consume cannabis liberally without major issues. Then again, 90% of people can consume alcohol without becoming alcoholics or getting into related trouble. It is just so difficult to assign cause and effect in a complex world. How could we design a study that takes into account: genes, medical history, family history, drugs — licit and illicit, educational levels, work and military history, socioeconomic class, personality, media viewing habits including social media, age / generation, religion, geography, natal sex, political views, family dynamics, etc…? It is likely that all, or most of these things, influence our experiences in the world.

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      • I think the question is who would fund/publish/publicize the study! Good points- these should all be thoroughly vetted before “experts” start doling out opposite sex HRT.
        Do you know this Canadian study? My son is textbook, with the additions of my own theories: soy based prenatal/breastfeeding diet, drug experiences, and the demonization of white males. 😮

        Guess I have to pay $$$ to access academic secrecy… but it’s referenced here: http://www.childhealing.com/articles/genderidentitydisorder.php

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    • Yes, this is on my list of suspected correlations. My son had two experiences with “ecstasy” within a week of his 18th birthday. He also smoked some herb while coming down. Ended up in ER both times- apparently nothing “wrong”. His mind wasn’t quite right (including flashbacks) for a couple of years, at which point he expressed the desire to transition. He didn’t see anyone to diagnose psychosis, but the signs presented. Depersonalization and dissociation are both post-psychosis effects, and exemplify gender dysphoric behaviors, imo. My son and I are both highly sensitive/allergic to cannabis, but I don’t have experience with ecstasy. Possibly a genetic/ eugenics issue as far as only impacting a small percentage of the population, analogous to vaccine injury- most people exhibit no signs, but those who do, suffer dramatically.
      I have had a friend suggest psilocybin to snap him out of it. And I have also wondered why professionals wouldn’t first try to balance hormones to match physical sex, but that’s not part of the agenda and would be “offensive” to suggest.
      Admittedly, I haven’t sought out anything from the trans “professional” community, so I only have my anecdotal perspective.

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  36. greatergoodtruth has often brought up concerns about the level of sexual fetishism among transgender teens. One possible explanation for this (and trans more generally, to a lesser extent) is how in current society sex is both repressed and commercialised at the same time. A lot could be said about this, but in simple terms sexuality (especially female sexuality) is shamed and sex education is a joke, but porn is everywhere. Transgender porn is also viewed by many who are not trans as a part of porn escalation, a symptom of increasing addiction described by Your Brain On Porn. It would be interesting to see if transgender presents differently in countries with different forms of sex education. Not sure if you could find anywhere without porn to make a comparison.

    Thinking about the state of sex education and how long Section 28 and its after effects lasted (British law that banned discussion of homosexuality in schools), but how quickly transgender education has spread and been accepted by the authorities, leads to a question. How much planned strategy, organisation and establishment support is there behind transgenderism? Obviously things like this can develop organically and don’t require a conspiracy of moustache-twirling villains. But it is so sophisticated and ruthless would anyone be surprised if it involved Nazi scientists, Operation Paperclip and MK-ULTRA? When you consider what pediatric transition actually does – sterilise and operate on children who are nonconforming, gay, mentally ill and/or autistic? Dr Mengele will see you now.

    Just a few weeks ago I was saying you shouldn’t compare transgenderism to the disappeared in South America, now I’m comparing it to Nazi medical experiments. You lot are a bad influence. 😉 (though I still think such comparisons should be kept out of the names of any events or organisations)

    Liked by 4 people

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    • Without getting too personal, the sexual deviances manifesting from this epidemic are a prime motivation for my compulsion to speak, along with the breast/genital amputation and child abuse.

      As far as “planned strategy”, on the contrary, something like this could only develop through diabolical design! Unfortunately, I came upon many other puzzle pieces while trying to find reason in the rhyme. Truth hurts, but I wouldn’t trade it.

      “Speaking out has never been safe, and it never will be… start talking” Jordan Peterson ❤

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    • How much planned strategy, organisation and establishment support is there behind transgenderism?

      You may find this post and comment thread quite interesting. I don’t say I’d vouch for everything or even anything in it – really couldn’t say – but it is one of the few posts I have seen where this question is, to some extent, explored.

      British law that banned discussion of homosexuality in schools

      Actually Section 28 was rather more far reaching than that. It forbade local authorities to

      “(a) intentionally promote homosexuality or publish material with the intention of promoting homosexuality;

      (b)promote the teaching in any maintained school of the acceptability of homosexuality as a pretended family relationship.”

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    • islamaeocean, how do I pronounce your name and what else do you know? Artemisia, the authorities usually regard any discussion of homosexuality at all as ‘promoting homosexuality’, but you are right that the devil is in the details of Section 28 (Thatcher era so the devil’s contract lawyers didn’t need to be subtle). 🙂

      Both of you, thanks for the paranoia fuel! Now for the next level of conspiracy theory. A lot of people have mad love for Jordan Peterson and I get why. Just to have one of your own doing something leads to hope. Like a lot of Jews will forgive Israel anything and a lot of socialists will overlook the many problems of Cuba (the main one being that it isn’t actually socialist). You could imagine the establishment nudging Peterson and saying “Dude, shut up! We’ve got them right where we want them!” But alternatively we have to consider whether, knowingly or not, he is a pawn of trans ideology, being used to discredit gender critical thought.

      Consider who he is – a self-satisfied white man and apologist for racism, sexism and capitalism. If you’ve ever wondered what ‘white male privilege’ or ‘capitalist hetero-patriarchy’ is, it’s basically this guy. He is probably the person least likely to reach those most vulnerable to transgenderism, and in fact displays open contempt for them. His very existence is a declaration of war to the good citizens of the Tumblr nation. By making it look like only despicable right-wingers are against transgenderism he makes the position easy to dismiss. Maybe this is why has he has been pushed to prominence as seemingly the only voice of dissent?

      *puts on tinfoil hat*

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      • It’s Isla (like island) and mae. I don’t know anything…just theories based on what I’ve read and observed. I like your theory about JP. I’ve had suspicion about him based on another topic (unmentionable here, but relates to Israel). I’m not fearful (or paranoid) but have a fair grasp on the big picture. My hat is rusty, lol.

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    • I’ve heard some people raise the question: “Why doesn’t the US government—or why don’t all world governments—impose an ‘opt-in’ requirement for porn (or at least, extreme porn). That way families could make the decision to get porn-free internet. Of course, kids would still get ahold of porn, but it might do some good. Is it all about profits?” I’ve heard some people respond: “Yep, it’s all about profits. There’s no other conspiracy afoot.” I don’t buy it. It’s like the Catholic sex abuse scandal in some ways, which you can read about here: http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2010/07/sex_and_state_power.html I’m not saying that kids’ exposure to extreme hardcore pornography is equivalent to sexual abuse. But I do think there is suppression of research and public debate about the psychological impact of early porn consumption on developing minds and identities. Exposure to images of aggressive sex (sexual aggression) can be traumatic for kids; and just like in other forms of trauma, the child may go back to the material or act it out in some way in order to make sense of it and conquer the disturbing feelings it elicits. Sexual trauma impacts personality and identity development, including gender identity. Robert Stoller spent a career writing about this. I hope that some brave researcher will expose this conspiracy and show how the gender ideology propagated by hardcore pornography is connected to the rise of transgenderism.

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      • Hmm. Definitely people attempting to make sense of the connections between porn and transgender epidemics. Many investigators are religious, so don’t get taken too seriously by the masses who’ve been programmed to be offended by moral boundaries. Yeah, I think it’s definitely beyond profit$. The ones in charge can just print more right? Much deeper agenda here and nearly everywhere else.

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  37. @potentilla

    Thank you for sharing your story and I’m happy you were able to get deprogrammed from the cult. I think it’s important for people who detransistioned to share their experiences considering so many young people are being indoctrinated into this cult. Hormones and surgery will not fix an underlying problem of self-esteem issues, mental illness, and other dissatisfaction with life. It’s called “sex-reassignment surgery”, not “create-a-whole-new-person” surgery. Even SRS is a misnomer because it’s just not biologically possible to change your sex.

    There was an article in the New York Times written be a mother who loves her tomboy daughter just the way she is and is disturbed by the fact that her daughter’s teachers keep asking her if she’s a boy or wants to be called by a boy’s name. Of course the Gender Police and the ACLU think that the article is “dangerous speech”:
    https://gendertrender.wordpress.com/2017/04/18/toddlers-and-transgender/#comment-80679

    So now if you’re a girl and you don’t want to obey the gender role that says you must be feminine, the only way around it is to claim to be a boy. How very fucked up.

    I wasn’t a tomboy as a kid, but I was and still am into hobbies like video games that are considered “for men” and I majored in STEM. Years ago I went to an alphabet soup group and was told that because I wanted to be a scientist, it meant that I was “genderqueer” or some other form of “not a woman”. Since female brains can’t comprehend science I guess.

    I agree about the cis/trans binary. Well, I don’t use the word “cis” to describe myself or others, because it’s insulting. But you are right that that definition means that almost everyone has been “trans” since almost everyone is unhappy with themselves or their body at some point. I’ve also read that girls who hate their period must be trans (who doesn’t hate her period?).

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    • That kind of constant prodding about gender will probably cause dysphoria the same way constant prodding about weight creates eating disorders.

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      • Prodding about weight does not cause eating disorders but it doesn’t help when vulnerable teens are insecure and attach themselves to an idea where the scale can make or break their self worth. Even with transgenderism, I don’t blame the concept but having an Aspie kid who never fit in, she was going to become preoccupied with something negative to explain away why she feels so uncomfortable in her body and it is the activism and current social cheerleading that makes it much more difficult to manage; she looks at my concern as bigotry based on “regressive” ideas on biology.

        So frustrating.

        Like

      • …In fairness, no one has actually stated that prodding about weight HELPS with anything. The point is, it doesn’t CAUSE or CREATE eating disorders. Causation is much more complex!

        Like

      • I think we are all on same page. Sure, we want to minimize the negative social factors that may help push the tipping point in any of these disorders but there is no perfect formula that causes them or remedies them. If there was none of us would be here debating.

        Like I said with my child, I understand her FEELINGS about being in wrong body, but validation she gets from peer, online and adult “professionals” scares the hell out of me. If the protocol were to just leave the kids alone and let them figure it out without medical intervention I don’t think I’d have nearly as much anxiety over it all.

        Liked by 2 people

      • Can somebody expand on the claim that constant prodding about weight doesn’t cause eating disorders? I was reading about dancers with eating disorders and they made it seem like this is exactly how it starts.

        Like

      • Well, like I said above, the conditions have to be ripe. My mom carped on me about weight when I was a teen. I did develop an eating disorder but my brother did not. I have friends who developed eating disorders, not all of them were prodded about their weight, some just got caught up in the fact peers were focused on it, some become obsessed with society’s glorification of thinness above all else.

        With all social, cultural contagions, there are many components: personality, tendencies toward anxiety and/or depression and likelihood of developing poor coping mechanisms, etc.

        My Aspie kid wants to believe transgender ideology and is like a dog with a bone. My son, 5.5 year young, neurotypical and much more confident finds it illogical and weird.

        I think had my daughter been born 15 years earlier she may have been Anorexic or Goth or a cutter. I don’t think she would have had a carefree adolescence, I just think she would have focused on something else prevalent at the time, the difference is she would not have had societal validation that her coping mechanism was “right and healthy”.

        That is the best way I can describe it personally.

        Liked by 2 people

      • Hi, DY, I was a ballet dancer until age 27. I am now a scientist and still athletic. Prodding about weight does not CAUSE eating disorders. The causes of eating disorders are far more complex. Think of all the millions, if not billions, of people in the world who have been teased or prodded about their weight. Only a tiny fraction go on to develop eating disorders. Eating disorder development depends on multiple factors: physiology, psychology, socialization, environment, self-esteem, personality factors, etc. Think of all the fat people who are “weight shamed” and try to starve themselves down to a smaller size. How long does that last? For most, not long, as they become hungry and binge. Only a perfect storm of factors will result in an eating disorder. It is very hard to ignore cues to eat long-term. In people with anorexia, these cues are muted due in part to physiological factors. People at risk of anorexia often do not feel hunger signals as strongly as those not predisposed. Not all ballet dancers are anorexic, though they do have a higher ave rate of eating disorders. Most of the people in a dance troupe have been exposed to the same social forces, yet only some develop eating disorders. There is much more on the subject that is easily accessible online. It is similar to addictions. Most people have been exposed to alcohol and / or drugs at some point in their lives. Most people do not become addicts. There is a “perfect storm” of physiological, social, environmental, personality, and psychological factors that leads some down a more extreme path. To say that “prodding about weight creates eating disorders” is overly simplistic. All of the fat people in the world who desired weight loss would simply hire someone to prod them about weight, and make them skinny, if prodding were enough.

        Like

      • Okay, its multifactoral, I see what you mean. I know a lot of trans children also self harm and have eating disorders but I wonder if as time goes on trans will start eating into their market share? SH and ED have been common fallbacks for children who feel powerless (and I get there is more to it than that) but trans has some unique selling points to the concious and subconcious mind. Pretty much everyone agrees SH and ED are pathological and a problem to be solved (though I’m just waiting for someone to claim eating disorder clinics are ‘anaphobic’). If a child declares themselves trans however, their friends, teachers, doctors, therapists and social workers will likely side with them. If their parents resist the idea, the aforementioned people will turn on the parents and tell them all the ways they are wrong. For a child looking to assert some control in their life, this must be a very tempting proposition.

        Liked by 1 person

  38. Not sure if anyone has been following the outcry in school communities across the nation over this new Netflix series, “13 Reasons Why,” which graphically depicts and romanticizes teen suicide. We have received several letters about it from the local school, warning us not to allow our children to watch it, or to see any media coverage of it, as teens are incredibly prone to the “copycat” behavior. All the parents want to make sure that the school does *not* discuss this show with students or draw attention to it in any way, so it does not trigger a suicide cluster. It is too bad that the same or similar conversation cannot be had about teen social contagion and Trans declarations with exposure to romanticized stories of teen transitions and star trans virtuosi. By the way, has the researcher at Mount Sinai conducting the study on teens, trans declarations, peer groups, and social contagion published or presented any results yet from her study? I was wondering whether she would lose her funding or have it shut down for political reasons. Do we know yet what she found? When she does, could you please let us know? Someone in the national press should also write a major story on this “13 Reasons Why” and why we cannot similarly talk about social contagion, clusters, and trans teens. There is a major story here that is not being told.

    Liked by 4 people

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    • I’ve heard the same thing about school shootings and drug overdoses. The schools don’t want these things reported widely because of concerns of copycat behavior. If there are any teachers or school administrators who are concerned about the trans epidemic, they certainly can’t say a word. I would love it if we had an epidemic of girls who are gender nonconforming and are happy that their self worth is not based on what guys think of them. That would be refreshing.

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  39. Thank you for your honesty, I hope it will help many individuals and families who are adrift in this muddled world. ” I saw people valuing me for something deeper than my identity. ” Beautiful, and long may it last for you.

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  40. “But they are finally able to leave the dark forest and again become part of the human family.”

    THIS! The concept of ‘human family’ has been so disrupted not just with gender but race, religion, politics and education.

    The Far Right has contributed greatly to this by teaching that anything outside of their definition of faith and family is WRONG. The Far Left has now pushed back with, ‘No, YOUR definitions are wrong!’ Somehow the loudest voices have gained traction with the idea of erasing and rewriting the whole definition of society instead of broadening the definition.

    Humanity depends on us making connections to one another. Post modernism seeks to wall us off from one another by rewriting language, stopping the sharing of ideas and most of all teaching us to categorize one another as our group instead of learning about each individual as we meet them.

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    • JParle, YES! All of this! Extremism never holds the answer, even when it begins as a well-intentioned pushback and disrupts and undermines the human family.

      Liked by 1 person

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  41. Pingback: Compendium of Radical Feminist Resources (en anglais) | TRADFEM

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